HIDs vs LEDs 5th generation explorer

[Ellocovg]

For the record, I did read the hid planet stuff regarding this where some people show different projectors. I also saw that the years of the car they removed the projectors from differed. I understand the theory of how they would theoretically vary, but in practice (even if they are in fact different) the difference is so minute no one notices or cares. The projectors and HIDs in my fusion are perfect. The light cutoff is 100% perfect. If there is a difference, it's in the heads of people because they know.

What I'm proposing is that any difference if one truly exists is materially irrelevant and one should not buy new housings to accommodate HIDs if they have stock projector housings.

Over the years selling HIDs and automotive lighting I've also seen that those that propose differences and replacing entire light assemblies or retrofits are those with a vested interest in people doing this (they sell them or benefit financially from their sale). This makes sense, because people with this much knowledge in this realm probably have that knowledge either because they work on them or they are so passionate about it anyway that they do work in this realm.

Some of you may remember, I was a Flashtech representative (paying vendor) on this forum under the tag "expoon24s" a few years ago. We sold retrofits, HIDs, the whole nine yards. Halos were sold to many on here and obviously in installing halos so frequently you've seen many different housings apart and gain a lot of experience in this realm.

I don't know what to say, there is no way it's the same projector. If you've held both in your hands you will instantly know the difference. I drive a ford no disrespect to ford but there hid projectors are nowhere near elite meaning nobody is buying them to retrofit them into there cars headlights. I can't speak for all vehicles but I know my friend had a navigator which should be the best hids ford makes and my Acura TL's hids were miles better than the Navis. A good hid retrofit or oem the light looks like this _____/------------- so that you don't blind anyone a hid kit will never work that well.

 

[Ellocovg]

I don't know what to say, there is no way it's the same projector. If you've held both in your hands you will instantly know the difference. I drive a ford no disrespect to ford but there hid projectors are nowhere near elite meaning nobody is buying them to retrofit them into there cars headlights. I can't speak for all vehicles but I know my friend had a navigator which should be the best hids ford makes and my Acura TL's hids were miles better than the Navis. A good hid retrofit or oem the light looks like this _____/------------- so that you don't blind anyone a hid kit will never work that well.

Halogen Reflector

A factory halogen reflector housing uses a specific focal point & reflector design to control light output. This design is based around a halogen bulbs 360 degrees of light output or illumination. A halogen bulb creates 360 degrees of light due to its use of a filament.



HID bulbs have no filament for their light output. Light is created by an arc igniting gases inside the bulb capsule. When an HID bulb is lit or on, it also doesn't emit light in a 360 degree pattern such as a halogen bulb. The light output is more of a controlled pattern with the brightest light (off-white/ slight yellow) being emitted downward & center, and the slightly less bright light (whitish/blueish) being emitted at the ends of the arc.

Halogen bulbs are made to shine off the reflector like a mirror and back up. Hids shoot out like a beam then off your reflector in your halogen projector (which hid projectors don't have) and create a burst of light. Hid projector lights are straight no arc whatsoever.

 

[MikB]

Halogen = bb5z13008j

HID = bb5z13008u

These are the part numbers for the 'assemblies'. They are for one side, left or right, I don't know which. However, this only proves that they have a different part number for each type. Not a difference in design in the housing for each type, that remains to be seen. If you ask me, I believe the 'housings' are the same with the difference being what goes in them. The 'assemblies' are complete with bulbs, HID or Halogen, included. Carry on.

 

[Ellocovg]

Halogen = bb5z13008j

HID = bb5z13008u

These are the part numbers for the 'assemblies'. They are for one side, left or right, I don't know which. However, this only proves that they have a different part number for each type. Not a difference in design in the housing for each type, that remains to be seen. If you ask me, I believe the 'housings' are the same with the difference being what goes in them. The 'assemblies' are complete with bulbs, HID or Halogen, included. Carry on.

I can't comment for ford but Toyota which I know really well has one halogen projector that's typically used across the board and one hid projector. (Higher end models get better ones with Lexus) They claim the lens is different to handle the hotter bulb but I doubt it. When I had my 07 Camry with halogen projectors, I purchased a set of Solara hid headlights off of eBay cracked them both open and the only difference in the base of the projectors was an extra tab that I shaved off and it screwed right in. I know the newer Toyota halogen projectors which are fed from the side not the back can be a direct swap for the lexus IS250 hid Projector but it's not a popular swap because the Lexus IS hid projectors are expensive but aren't really very good compared to alternatives. A typical high quality full hid retrofit can cost around $1,000 with all the oem part.

 

[Ellocovg]

Which kit do you recommend for 12-14 explorers? And is the temperature too hot for HID fogs?

Retrofitsource sells really good kits but for a premium if you plan on having them for a while I'd consider them. Kits have come a long way and unless if you buy the 19.99 kit they should last you a few years just keep the ballast dry. The housings aren't made for a hot bulb and hids get very hot, will they melt your housing the same day probably not, but if you run em all day every day in a few years chances are you will have some kind of issue. The most important thing is make sure to get a good quality harness so you don't hurt your wiring. Like I mentioned before hids in the fogs will blind the hell out of everyone in front of you and my personal opinion is that it's kinda dickish but to each it's own. Also when buying 8000k and 10000k bulbs these kits are not really running at that color temperature the bulbs are just tinted dark blue or purple.

 

[MikB]

Looking in the manual there seems to be a difference in the Explorer housing. The HID housing has a place for the ballast and accommodation for the HID bulb design. That is the major difference between the two housings as seen in the Ford repair manual that I have. If there is a difference in the projectors for each, I can not say. However, looking at what the pattern is supposed to be with the HID's as shown in the manual, oddly enough, the pattern for my Ex is the same. With that in mind, it looks as though the projectors are very close, if not, the same.

Bottom line to this point is, yes, there appears to be a difference in the headlamps if only for the addition of a mounted ballast and design accommodation for the HID bulb that's used. Other than that, I can not say.

 

[Ellocovg]

Looking in the manual there seems to be a difference in the Explorer housing. The HID housing has a place for the ballast and accommodation for the HID bulb design. That is the major difference between the two housings as seen in the Ford repair manual that I have. If there is a difference in the projectors for each, I can not say. However, looking at what the pattern is supposed to be with the HID's as shown in the manual, oddly enough, the pattern for my Ex is the same. With that in mind, it looks as though the projectors are very close, if not, the same.

Bottom line to this point is, yes, there appears to be a difference in the headlamps if only for the addition of a mounted ballast and design accommodation for the HID bulb that's used. Other than that, I can not say.

Trust me no way the projector is the same if I hit the power ball I'll bet you 450 million. Usually they claim lens is different which I'm not sure this true or not. The difference is in the cutoff of the light, if you turn on your lights and look at it from the side it will be rounded off. For example when I had my Acura if I turned the hids low beams on in my driveway 15' away from my garage and looked at it from the side there would be a perfectly straight line on my house about 3' high and on my garage door it would be a perfectly straight line with the left side a tad lower so you don't blind oncoming traffic. On the parkway is where it really shined there's a stretch of the parkway 4 lanes wide with real minimal lighting that is go on early with no one else on the road and my lights would open up and hit from the trees on my right all the way to the other side of the highway.

 

[MikB]

Rounded off, I'm not understanding but, the rest of what you say about the 'Acura', you could be talking about my Ex as it's the same type of pattern.

 

[Ellocovg]

Sorry I'm on my phone it's to complicated to post pictures but checkout this thread they have a pretty good break down look at the picture comparisons.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/engines-suspension-wheels-tires-audio-accessories/111641-hids-everything-you-need-know-then-some.html

 

[4FordFamily]

Halogen Reflector

A factory halogen reflector housing uses a specific focal point & reflector design to control light output. This design is based around a halogen bulbs 360 degrees of light output or illumination. A halogen bulb creates 360 degrees of light due to its use of a filament.



HID bulbs have no filament for their light output. Light is created by an arc igniting gases inside the bulb capsule. When an HID bulb is lit or on, it also doesn't emit light in a 360 degree pattern such as a halogen bulb. The light output is more of a controlled pattern with the brightest light (off-white/ slight yellow) being emitted downward & center, and the slightly less bright light (whitish/blueish) being emitted at the ends of the arc.

Halogen bulbs are made to shine off the reflector like a mirror and back up. Hids shoot out like a beam then off your reflector in your halogen projector (which hid projectors don't have) and create a burst of light. Hid projector lights are straight no arc whatsoever.

Halogen reflector is quite different, yes. To my knowledge we were talking about projectors for halogen vs high intensity discharge. With a reflector, an arc of light is very different yes. Reflectors used for some Factory hid settings such as old acuras and older navigators were probably different from those used for halogens. In that type of application it could make a world of difference. Eventually, all manufacturers added projectors for HIDs because hey were superior.

 

[4FordFamily]

Again, a projector is largely a projector. It would make ZERO sense from a coat engineering perspective to distinguish between the two. Also it's nearly impossible because of the design of the projectors to marginally change anything. You can speculate all you like but I've actually done it dozens of times and speak from experience. It cuts off the light perfectly. Zero difference between how it projected halogens vs my HIDs.

The reflector housings in my 08 explorer are a completely different story and required much adjusting to ensure I wasn't blinding oncoming drivers. It was a lost cause with the fog lights, so I bought projector fog light housings. With that truck behind me, it's actually less intrusive than any halogen car but because I aimed them down a lot. Was not needed with my projector housings. They were indistinguishable.

 

[MikB]

Mine look like the second picture in that link. Straight line across the top with a little rise on the right side as shown in the pic. If you were before, talking about the rounded look in the second pic, no sign of that at all with mine. I specifically checked this after I installed them when I went down to my former work place to do this test. I've also had no complaints or flashes from on coming traffic since they were installed so, they must not bother the masses.

P.S. When I say I tested them, I actually followed the procedure for checking headlight adjustments and had the Ex at 25 feet from the surface being used. According to the measurements that are acceptable, the projection was pretty much spot on.

 

[4FordFamily]

Mine look like the second picture in that link. Straight line across the top with a little rise on the right side as shown in the pic. If you were before, talking about the rounded look in the second pic, no sign of that at all with mine. I specifically checked this after I installed them when I went down to my former work place to do this test. I've also had no complaints or flashes from on coming traffic since they were installed so, they must not bother the masses.

P.S. When I say I tested them, I actually followed the procedure for checking headlight adjustments and had the Ex at 25 feet from the surface being used. According to the measurements that are acceptable, the projection was pretty much spot on.

Pretty much summarizes my experience with my own fusion and several other customers and friends vehicles.

 

[roamingphantom]

Retrofitsource sells really good kits but for a premium if you plan on having them for a while I'd consider them. Kits have come a long way and unless if you buy the 19.99 kit they should last you a few years just keep the ballast dry. The housings aren't made for a hot bulb and hids get very hot, will they melt your housing the same day probably not, but if you run em all day every day in a few years chances are you will have some kind of issue.

Just adding a bit. I bought the $150 led fog from retrofitsource and now have the stock, led and an hid (also from retrofitsource) IMO stock is not impressive, HID is hid and is as bright as anything - I once drove at night with only the HID fogs and didn't have an issue. The LED looks very nice you should only get it if you want fog functionality and looks, don't expect much more than just that. I've never really had to use it for "fog" as in NYC there isn't much. I sometimes just swap between the HID and fogs depending on my mood. Ive never been flashed before by an oncoming driver

mine is the last Explorer showing the led fogs

http://www.lightwerkz.net/photo/makemodel/ford/explorer/

 

[peterk9]

Just adding a bit. I bought the $150 led fog from retrofitsource and now have the stock, led and an hid (also from retrofitsource) IMO stock is not impressive, HID is hid and is as bright as anything - I once drove at night with only the HID fogs and didn't have an issue. The LED looks very nice you should only get it if you want fog functionality and looks, don't expect much more than just that. I've never really had to use it for "fog" as in NYC there isn't much. I sometimes just swap between the HID and fogs depending on my mood. Ive never been flashed before by an oncoming driver

mine is the last Explorer showing the led fogs

http://www.lightwerkz.net/photo/makemodel/ford/explorer/

Ironically you have just covered the 2 reasons why KIA/Hyundai is now producing models without fog lights. 1. There is little use for them. 2. People are miss-using them.

Peter

 

[4FordFamily]

Ironically you have just covered the 2 reasons why KIA/Hyundai is now producing models without fog lights. 1. There is little use for them. 2. People are miss-using them.

Peter

I, for one, will not own a car without them. Aesthetically I find them appealing and they do a great job lighting the road in most applications, especially when headlights are not in use.

 

[peterk9]

.......they do a great job lighting the road in most applications, especially when headlights are not in use.

That falls under their meaning of miss-use. Fog lights are not meant to replace headlights.

Peter

 

[4FordFamily]

That falls under their meaning of miss-use. Fog lights are not meant to replace headlights.

Peter

Pickup trucks were not really meant for daily drivers of white collar workers, Coca Cola wasn't meant to be consumed rather to clean, and Ritalin was never meant to help with focus and ADD it was a weight loss drug.

So my question is how does using fog lights during the day hurt anyone? Statistically, forward facing lights decrease the chances of collisions considerably which is one reason Canada requires DRL.

How is this hurting the populace?

You seem like a nice guy but you're very black and white. It fits the perceived glove you have in your head or its 100% wrong. Maybe lighten up a bit. Life is good, and I think you mean well. There are bigger fish to fry! Let's focus on our love for the blue oval and the explorer!

God bless,

Jason

 

[peterk9]

Pickup trucks were not really meant for daily drivers of white collar workers, Coca Cola wasn't meant to be consumed rather to clean, and Ritalin was never meant to help with focus and ADD it was a weight loss drug.

So my question is how does using fog lights during the day hurt anyone? Statistically, forward facing lights decrease the chances of collisions considerably which is one reason Canada requires DRL.

How is this hurting the populace?

You seem like a nice guy but you're very black and white. It fits the perceived glove you have in your head or its 100% wrong. Maybe lighten up a bit. Life is good, and I think you mean well. There are bigger fish to fry! Let's focus on our love for the blue oval and the explorer!

God bless,

Jason

Not a problem during the day at all Jason. Your post mentioned "lighting the road" which lead me to believe you were using them at night in place of the headlights. Just a misunderstanding. Happy motoring my friend.

Peter

 

[MikB]

I like using fogs to illuminate the immediate front of my rides along with my headlights upon occasion. Fogs, alone, are useful for low impedance of camping areas and stargazing activities and such. They will remain halogen to that end as well.