engine code 18 problem, SPOUT system

[daves91]

Hello:

I have a 91 Explorer automatic 4 WD 2 door, calif. spec

i have had some rough running, lots of bogging down and vibration, and loss of power when I accelerate on freeway.

My code reader indicates code 18 while engine is running (KOER)

this is a SPOUT code for spout circuit open. or it means SAW for Spark Angle Word failure. From what I read this has to do with timing.

what is the next suggested steps to finalize diagnosis on my truck, what part(s) should I test or adjust or replace to repair this.

this is a faily new truck to me, still learning it.

any help / advice is most apreciated.

thanks

 

[MrShorty]

I haven't seen a KOER 18 before. Here's what I can deduce (if your local library has an "engine performance, tune-up, and diagnosis" manual by Mitchell or Motor, you might look it up there, because they will have a specific diagnostic tree published for that code).

KOER 18 does indeed point to a timing problem. Ignition timing on these starts with the crankshaft position sensor (CKP), which tells the ICM where TDC for cylinder 1 is and engine speed. From that, the ICM calculates base timing (10 BTDC). The ICM also sends a signal to the PCM (I can't remember if this is SAW or SPOUT). The PCM then calculates timing advance and sends it back to the ICM (this is either SAW or SPOUT depending on which the previous signal wasn't). The ICM then figures overall timing (base + advance) and sends that to the coil.

For a rare problem like this, I'd probably start by inspecting the wiring between the CKP and the ICM, and the ICM and PCM. Make sure there are no loose connections or breaks. I'd also check power and ground for the ICM for loose connections. CKP is a simple Hall effect sensor, so it should be easy to test. ICM and PCM are a little trickier (in part because I'm not good with solid state electronics).

You might get some insights if you measure the timing. Because it is possible for the dampener to rotate around the crankshaft pulley (mine is about 180 out), check the mark for TDC. Then disconnect the SPOUT, point your timing light at the marks, at idle and see if base timing is about 10 BTDC. Reconnect the SPOUT and initiate the KOER test. During the KOER test, timing advance is fixed at base + 20, so you should see something around 30 BTDC. Anything remarkably different from that may give you some idea of how bad it is, maybe when it is hicupping and such.

 

[daves91]

thats great info, thanks!!

I am not up on the location of the SPOUT that i should dissconnect. What does it looks like, is a sender of some sort or a control module? and where is it located?

from what I gather, on this truck, timing is checked with a strobe light, down at the lower pulley. I read something about disconnecting the SPOUT for this timing check, is that correct?

where is the ICM and PCM located?

all I got is the Hanyes manual for a book right now, it does not mention this stuff, so this website is turning out to be great resource!


I wil keep plugging away tonight at it, cold rain due tommorow, no garage!

 

[Tbars4]

Mrshorty will steer you right...

BTW, Where in Cali are you ?...and Welcome here...

 

[daves91]

Redwood City, between san fran and san jose.

thanks for the welcome.

still searching, found a post from 1-25-06 here with a simular problem, looks like it took measuring voltages to solve (ignition switch) I am handy with a volt / ohm meter, but have no clue yet as to the location of the modules, and test procedures yet.

Can anyone direct me to info on testing the components? wire charts and test values?

i replaced the radius arm bushings after I got the truck, drilled out the rivets and bolted in urathane ones., handles much better now, did the up grade with the extra washer i read about here. done a few other little things, was well maintained, baought from origanl owner, all maintence records (regular 3000 mile oil changes, and all other stuff done regular) 178K miles, same motor.

 

[MrShorty]

I am not up on the location of the SPOUT that i should dissconnect. What does it looks like, is a sender of some sort or a control module? and where is it located?
from what I gather, on this truck, timing is checked with a strobe light, down at the lower pulley. I read something about disconnecting the SPOUT for this timing check, is that correct?

SPOUT connector is merely a "connector" that makes a convenient place to break the SPOUT circuit. On my '92, it's in a pink wire coming off of the coil pack. And, yes, you need to disconnect the SPOUT connector to check BASE timing. It must be connected to check timing advance during the KOER test.

where is the ICM and PCM located?

On my '92, the ICM is located next to the radiator, in front of the battery. The PCM is located behind the kick panel in front of the passenger door, below the glove box.

Can anyone direct me to info on testing the components? wire charts and test values?

Have you got access to a Chiltons manual? I can't find my Haynes (I thought they had limited information in the emission controls chapter). I've found the wiring diagrams in Chiltons adequate for many circuits. When Haynes or Chiltons doesn't have the information I need, I've found that most public libraries have an auto reference section with professional level manuals that have good information (once you learn how to sort through the manual to find it).

Actron once had a "sensor tester" that they sold. It was really little more than a glorified multimeter, but the manual had some good information for testing most common sensors, and Actron has (or at least used to have) their users manuals available for download on their website.

 

[daves91]

ok, got a chiltons book. still lost! i cant identify the components.

need to find the SPOUT connector Is it just a connector between two wires, right? you pull it apart to disconect something, right? is this the cable that goes from the Hall sensor for the crank postion or not?

ok got to chiltons page 4-21, looking at the line drawing of the engine bay. in lower right of drawing (drivers side front) there is the SPOUT and ICM cable. My truck does not have this there. the other cables I have, but no SPOUT as far as I can tell (what color is it, how many wires?)
On page 2-14 Fig 40 shows and states that all excpet the 2.3 liter engine have the Ign control modual under front left fender. Mine is not there!

My Ignition control modual is ahead of the battery on the passenger side! (Got to remove battery to get at it!!!) so the Chiltons manual is not the same as my truck. (91 Expolorer 4.0 liter, calif version)

So I am still lost, I cant find or identify the SPOUT ????

On page 2-11 of the Chilton book there is instructions of the Code 18!
how ever they say to check a EDIS modual (what is EDIS?), they mention a break out box (where is that located?) and you need to disconect the EEC processors (what is that, and where is it?) then I need to check the resistance between J45 (SAW) and pin 36 (SAW) of the ECC???
There is also a step to check resistance pin J45 (SAW) and Pin J51 (VBAT E) (what is this?)

I am completely lost, cause i cant find the components, the Ford lingo for parts is all new to me. Are there multiple acronyms for the same devices here?
(sorry i am used to really old VW's, carbed and early 1960's FI systems, totaly a newbie here, sorry for all the silly questions. I just dont know my way around this truck, and it appears to be differnt than the books drawings. (PS it is unmolested original, bought it from a relitive who bought it new, he never modified it, all stock)

anyway can someone please help me figure out where some of these things are located, wire colors, and how they are hooked up. My truck runs so bad I cant drive it safely. I just cant find the parts here., Very frustrated right now.

THANKS!!!

 

[MrShorty]

I'm guessing then that there isn't a pink wire coming off of the coil pack that had an in line connector?

EDIS=Electronic Distributorless Ignition System. The EDIS control module is probably what we are referring to as the ICM (Ignition Control Module).

There won't be a breakout box on the truck. Breakout box is a diagnostic tool ($$$) that plugs into the PCM that is used to safely diagnose the engine management system (you might refer to Glacier991's "primer on breakout boxes" thread for a quick description). The J45, 36, etc. refer to "pins" in the breakout box/PCM connector. A good wiring diagram should help you see which pins they are referring to.

 

[daves91]

ok, I have not found a single pink wire with connector yet. the books I have (Haynes and Chiltons) appear to have different diagrams and instructions. the Hyanes does mention the Ignition modual being behind teh passenger side head light (in front of battery) This should make it fun to probe that modual, with power to it! You cant get to it with battery in place as near as i can tell.

The chiltons manual has the ignition control modual (ICM) behind the DRIVER side headlight area, and also show teh SPOUT connector is supposed to be there next to it.

I cant make heads nor tails of this.

The Chiltons book on page 6-37 hasn a 91 explorer engine wire diagram, I see teh Ignition control modual, but no pink wire for a SPOUT. I dont see any spout connector there

my question is now, Where does the SPOUT connector go and from where does it come? my understanding is it is a single wire that you can break at a connector, it is a pink wire, Where do both ends of the SPOUT wire terminate????? if I am told where teh wire comes from and goes then i might be able to find it.

has anyoen a better electrical schematic for a 91 explorer 4.0 liter ???? my two books do not jive with what I have here.

I have sepnt three days now just trying to find the %$@()& connectors and moduals. I am pissed big time at my Ford , this is a total mess. can any one offer assistance on how this 91 is supposed to be wired.?

I got the code 18 trouble shooting guide from Chiltons, but it is useless until I can locate what they are asking me to probe/test.


please anyone help, I need my truck runing tommorrow.

thanks

 

[daves91]

ok, found a pink wire in the 1992 diagram for an explorer in the Chiltons book, it dont label the wire as a SPOUT, but it comes from pin 3 on the ignition control modual, and goes to pin 36 on the power train control assembly (what is this??? a modual, or terminal board or ????) on this pink wire there is a thing labled "shorting bar" is that another word for connector ??? (still not up on this Ford lingo yet) could this be the SPOUT connector?

now on the chitlons diagram for my year truck (1991) the diagram is different. from pin 10 on the ignition contrl modual, rather than a pink wire like the 1992 diagram, this diagram shows a yellow /lt green wire, with an inline shorting bar and it terminates at pin 36 on the powertrain control assembly. this appears to be the same as on the 92 truck, except for the color change in the wire

is this yellow/ lt green wire with a shorting bar on my 1991 truck the SPOUT connector? if so I still need to physically locate it.

Please help!
thanks

 

[Tbars4]

SPOUT connector is merely a "connector" that makes a convenient place to break the SPOUT circuit. On my '92, it's in a pink wire coming off of the coil pack. And, yes, you need to disconnect the SPOUT connector to check BASE timing. It must be connected to check timing advance during the KOER test.

...This is your spout connector to use for timing..

...If you take the time to search the post here, you may find some info..
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=232576

 

[daves91]

Thanks!!! where is the photo of the SPOUT connector taken, ? I looked all over the driver side behind headlight and can not find it.

thanks

 

[daves91]

ok, found a two pink wire connector ahead of the battery, one pink wire goes into the ignition module (located in front of battery) the other pink wire goes into the harness.

Is this the SPOUT connector????

now get this, there is NO connector across these two pink wires (ie if this is my SPOUT connector, it IS disconnected!!!!) could this be my problem??? (I dont see any connector "plug " laying around, maybe it fell out????)

my probelm is now I am not sure of anything.

I have gone thru the Chiltons and Hanynes book and have tried to make a list of the Ignition modual pin outs and wire colors. Mine is a 1991, BUT the 1991 is supposed to have green / yellow for the SPOUT (per chiltons diagram ) it appears mine is wired like a 1992???? if indeed my SPOUT is pink.

so should I always have the two pink wires I discribed above conneced to each other with a plug????

My first inclination is yes, I found it, the SPOUT connector plug (or coupling) is missing on my truck!! however I want to be dead sure of this before I go about putting a jumper wire in there. (I dont want to fry anything) I am really confused on the location of these compontents, and the different wire colors used in different years.

any suggestions here???

thanks

PS my two pink wires that go to a connector do not look exactly like the one in the the photo provided above by TBars4 (thank you Tbars4) it is a narrower connector, with two female contacts inside. It is not as wide as the one Tbar4 showed.

are tehre different looking SPOUT connector terminations amoung the Fords?

I just need to confirm the ID on this plug and that it should normally be shorted together. if I can get some confirmation on that I will go ahead and short them out.

thanks

 

[Tbars4]

...When you edit your post, no one gets notified of the change...

...I just went and took these pics off my 91...Look between the heater fan and the power distribution box...

 

[daves91]

OK, I am at the fan blower and see a connector with a jumper plug in it. the two wires that go in are Grey/Red, and Green. the connector looks simular to the one in you second photo has a grey plastic jumper plug in the connector. just is the colors are not pink.

what color are the wires to this connector near your blower fan do you have?

The two pink wires I found up near the battery (between battery and headlamp) go to the same style connector (but this one is missing a jumper plug) one pink wire comes from the ignition box, third wire from bottom of the ignition box plug. the other end of the pink wire goes into the harness.

Do you have any jumpered wires down in front of your battery like I do? what color are the wires ont eh jumpered connector you have near the fan blower?

I am begining to think I might have 1992 components in my truck dispite it being a 1991 (maybe it is end of year nand has some 1992 parts in it????) I know the original owner never changed anything on it, but maybe an end of year thing?


at anyrate could you please let me know the colors ont eh wires you show near the fan blower and please check your truck to see if there are any pink wires coing out of the igniton modual located in front of the battery>

thanks !!!

 

[Tbars4]

...I think you are seriously way over thinking this...

...I have a very early 91 so I know I have found other 91's with lots of little differences...If you are still trying to do your timing, pull that spout plug, set your timing to 10 (per your manuals), and then re-install that plug...

 

[daves91]

...I think you are seriously way over thinking this...

...I have a very early 91 so I know I have found other 91's with lots of little differences...If you are still trying to do your timing, pull that spout plug, set your timing to 10 (per your manuals), and then re-install that plug...

Ok, I am still not sure on the SPOUT plug.

This is my probelm, The truck started running very rough on even slight acceleration, it idle little rough but not TOO bad, coastes fine, but apply gas speically at highweay speeds, and it is supper rough, like the truck even shakes.

ran the code check, no codes in memory, got the "11" code.
Then I did the test with engine running, got back code "18" which i read to mean the SPOUT circuit.

The manuals I have indicate that my ignition modual is connected as a 92 (chiltons) if I go by the order of the colored wires at the ignition module. The manuals indicate pink wires go to and from the SPOUT on this year model

Coming out of my igintion modual along with all the other dozen or so wires is one pink wire, it goes to a shorting connector and continues on (pink) into the harness.
I also have a shortng connector up near my blower like you have pictured, with one Grey/Red wire and one Green wire.

my question now is:
I got two shorting connectors located on my truck, which one of the two below is the SPOUT?

a. Pink - Pink wired one near the ignition module ahead of the battery?
or
b. Grey/red - Green wired one, located near the heater fan blower?

thanks!

 

[daves91]

ok, went to friends house, his wife has a 93 explorer, I went to check on the connectors. she has both the pink wire short connectors, and the grey/red and green one on her truck. BOTH had short connections on them. recall my pink wires was missing the shorting connector.

Since her truck was down for brakes, I was able to borrow the shorting connector, put it in my truck, and test drvoe, Probelm GONE!!!! Yippie.

thanks for all your help on searching for what ailed my truck.

I can assume the pink connector is the SPOUT circuit. What a learning experience!

thanks