Explorer turns over, but won't start!

[Exproblems]

I'm looking for any ideas as to why my 2005 4.0L V-6 Explorer engine won't start up this morning. I went to start the vehicle and during the startup process with the key in the run/start position, I thought I heard a brief sound like a small "poof" or backfire and the engine wouldn't start. I backed off on the key and tried to start the vehicle again and it would just turn over, but not fire up. The starter is working okay, turning the motor over, and I can smell gas fumes in the air after trying to start it a few times. No strange noises coming from the engine as it turns over. I then checked a few fuses under the hood and they were okay. I also pressed the fuel pump reset button for $hits and giggles, but I do not believe that this is a fuel pump issue since I can smell gas fumes coming from the engine compartment, meaning gas is being delivered to the engine via the fuel pump. I checked the battery connections, spark wires etc, all okay. The vehicle had been starting and running fine since I bought it 2 + years ago. No unusual dash lights blinking on and off during the start up process. I will try to start it up again in a few hours since the engine probably got flooded by fuel trying to get it to fire up. So far all I could find in the forum as to the problem is possibly a "Crank Shaft Position Sensor" or a problem in the PATS system and I don't think the latter problem applies here. I'm going to have it towed up to my mechanic in the morning if it doesn't start later this morning.
Thanks to anyone that can give me some insight as to what this problem may be.

A few hours have passed by and I tried to re-start my Explorer and had put the battery on a charger for a few hours as well. Engine turned over, but would not start. After the 3rd try or so to start it, I noticed the engine spun slower like a huge drain of power, and after I switched off the ignition, I noticed the gauge needles for the RPM's and MPH's dropped below zero and rattled back and forth quickly for a few seconds before settling down at zero. I also saw a single word message on my message screen when the gauge needles were rattling and it said "Test". Don't know what the Test was for? Does anyone know what this is or means? I also pulled more fuses for the ignition, fuel pump and starter and all were good. I also had a neighbor turn on the ignition for me and I listened for the fuel pump to kick on and I heard a "clicking" sound by the gas tank. Tow truck is on it's way to my house as of right now. Dropping truck off at my mechanics shop. Thanks again for all who can help with this matter.

 

[FordFool2]

I just had something like this. I would squirt a couple shots of starting fluid into the air intake past the air filter. Then crank and listen for signs of firing. If none, then it's pretty much going to be ignition. If it does start momentarily, then it's fuel. I traced mine down to a bad fuel pump.

 

[Exproblems]

I just had something like this. I would squirt a couple shots of starting fluid into the air intake past the air filter. Then crank and listen for signs of firing. If none, then it's pretty much going to be ignition. If it does start momentarily, then it's fuel. I traced mine down to a bad fuel pump.

Thanks FordFool2! I just have to get a hold of some Starting fluid. Don't have any at the house right now. Thanks again.

 

[D Hook]

Please post updates when you can. Hope it's nothing serious.

 

[Exproblems]

Please post updates when you can. Hope it's nothing serious.

Thanks, I will. It is up at my mechanics shop right now. He's kind of busy he said, 9 people ahead of me. Probably won't hear the diagnosis till sometime tomorrow I'm figuring. Just hope what ever it is, it falls under my warranty. Only 4 months left on my warranty. The flat bed tow cost me $65, but they gave me a ride to and from the shop.
BTW, the RPM and MPH gauge needles rattling back and forth as previously mentioned after I turned off the ignition switch and the "Test" message I saw on the message center display, had to do with a low battery charge my mechanic said. I didn't think the battery was that low on a charge because when I hooked it up to the battery charger, it read "6" on the meter scale and was down to "4" when I unhooked it from the charger. I also tried to start the engine with the battery charger 50 amp booster start and same thing, turned over but wouldn't fire up. I had no CEL's or warning signs prior to it not starting today.

 

[Exproblems]

Update: Possible Timing Chain Cassette Problem

Please post updates when you can. Hope it's nothing serious.

Spoke to my mechanic at the end of the day today, he said my starting problem "maybe" related to a worn timing chain cassette tensioner causing the timing chain to "jump out of time", causing a higher compression within the motor, thus making it harder for the battery and starter to spin the motor upon startup. The last few startup tries yesterday, I noticed the motor spun at a slower rate and on the very first startup attempt yesterday, I heard a brief noise from the motor area during the ignition cycle. Don't hold to me to exact details on the mechanics description, as I had a lot of thoughts running thru my mind while he spoke. He said he isn't positive that is a timing chain guide issue yet, he'll know more on Monday when he does a compression test. He said the compression test will tell him if it is a timing chain issue and whether it is the front or rear timing chain. He didn't mention anything else as to the problem, just said that if it is a minor repair, I'll get the truck back late afternoon on Monday. He also said that the front timing chain guide/tensioner is easier to repair than the rear. If it is the rear tensioner that is bad, the motor needs to be removed to do the repair. My warranty does cover timing chain cassette/tensioner issues and my mechanic told me his is good friends with the insurance adjuster for my warranty company. He said he doesn't see any problems in dealing with him. For now, I'm in limbo till Monday afternoon when my mechanic calls me with the final diagnosis.

 

[2000StreetRod]

slipped timing chain

When you stated in the first post there was a small poof or backfire I began to suspect that the timing chain may have slipped. I agree with your mechanic that the next step is to check compression on both banks. Low compression for all cylinders on one bank equals slipped chain on that bank. No compression on one bank equals damaged valves. Low compression on both banks equals slipped primary (crankshaft to jackshaft) chain which is uncommon. If the right chain has slipped it may be cheaper to replace the engine with one from a salvage yard. How many miles are there on the odometer? If more than 200K then a slipped timing chain is more probable.

 

[Exproblems]

When you stated in the first post there was a small poof or backfire I began to suspect that the timing chain may have slipped. I agree with your mechanic that the next step is to check compression on both banks. Low compression for all cylinders on one bank equals slipped chain on that bank. No compression on one bank equals damaged valves. Low compression on both banks equals slipped primary (crankshaft to jackshaft) chain which is uncommon. If the right chain has slipped it may be cheaper to replace the engine with one from a salvage yard. How many miles are there on the odometer? If more than 200K then a slipped timing chain is more probable.

Thanks for that info 2000Streetrod! You are also dead on with what my mechanic told me and glad you spotted my post. He said if the right chain or rear chain slipped, the motor would need to come out. He also said it would be cheaper to get another motor for it rather than repair the one I currently have if it is the rear chain. He said the cost difference would be about $1000. If it is the rear chain, that decision will be up to my warranty company to make on which way to go with the repair. My current engine has 96K on it and I bought it with 82K on the odometer 2yrs, 8 months ago and I am the 3rd owner of the vehicle. I change the oil and filter every 2K in miles or so or every 4 months (don't drive much nowadays) and have been using Mobil1 5W-30 oil and a Bosch Distance Plus filter. I'm pretty meticulous with the care and maintenance on my vehicle, but I don't know how well the previous 2 owners took care of it with the maintenance end of things. My mechanic has commented to me that my Explorer is spotless in the engine compartment and the under side of it.
The only strange thing I noticed before it wouldn't start the other day, was that on many first startups of the day, I could hear a very brief (1 second)"racing sound"(if that makes sense) like the engine was spinning too fast as it started up. Other than that, I never heard any strange sounds or rattling coming from the engine as it ran. Thanks again for chiming in and I appreciate your input on this matter!

 

[2000StreetRod]

broken cassette

The Ford upgraded camshaft timing components were incorporated in 2002 and later year models. Unfortunately, the traction side of the right guide assembly was not reinforced with metal like the slack side of the left and right guide assembly or the traction side of the left guide assembly.

The timing chain normally does not slip unless the guide assembly breaks due to fatigue. When a large piece breaks loose it can jam between the chain and the head casting causing the chain to slip. Most engines with the improved components last 150K miles or more before timing chain problems occur.

 

[Exproblems]

The Ford upgraded camshaft timing components were incorporated in 2002 and later year models. Unfortunately, the traction side of the right guide assembly was not reinforced with metal like the slack side of the left and right guide assembly or the traction side of the left guide assembly.

The timing chain normally does not slip unless the guide assembly breaks due to fatigue. When a large piece breaks loose it can jam between the chain and the head casting causing the chain to slip. Most engines with the improved components last 150K miles or more before timing chain problems occur.

Thanks for the info 2000StreetRod. Makes you wonder why Ford used plastic parts inside a motor around moving chains, gears and heat. Doesn't sound like great engineering to me. This is the first vehicle I have owned in over 36 years of driving that could have a failed timing chain. Never had a timing chain problem ever before. I'll know for sure sometime on Monday.

 

[2000StreetRod]

ohv engines?

Have all of your past vehicles had overhead valve engines? My 1983 Volvo had an overhead cam engine with a timing belt that had to be changed every 70K miles. Most all of the newer higher performance/fuel economy engines have overhead cams with belts or chains that need periodic maintenance. My complaint with the Cologne/Ford SOHC V6 is that the right valve timing cassette is in the rear so the engine (or transmission) must be pulled to replace the cassette. My 1958 Jaguar XK-150 had dual overhead cams with double row timing chains but everything was in the front and could be replaced by removing the front timing cover.

 

[Exproblems]

Have all of your past vehicles had overhead valve engines? My 1983 Volvo had an overhead cam engine with a timing belt that had to be changed every 70K miles. Most all of the newer higher performance/fuel economy engines have overhead cams with belts or chains that need periodic maintenance. My complaint with the Cologne/Ford SOHC V6 is that the right valve timing cassette is in the rear so the engine (or transmission) must be pulled to replace the cassette. My 1958 Jaguar XK-150 had dual overhead cams with double row timing chains but everything was in the front and could be replaced by removing the front timing cover.

Can't remember if my 1992 Ford Explorer was an OHV engine or not, but it was a 4.0L V-6. I had no problems with that engine at all, ran strong and when I got rid of the truck, it had close to 150K on it. The lower body rotted out and the tranny crapped out eventually. Every vehicle I have ever owned was American made, mostly GM's and Ford's and a Jeep, 6 or 8 cylinders. I have heard some foreign cars or 4 cylinder engines have timing belts. The thought of a belt inside a motor kind of scares me. I'd rather have a timing "chain" than a belt, just seems stronger to me and should last a lot longer. I agree with the right timing cassette, it's in a bad place.
Was your 1958 Jaguar a 12 cylinder model, with the long nosed front end and short rear ended models? I remember walking to grammar school back in the 60's and a neighbor up the street had one of those long nosed Jaguars parked in front of his house, it was Canary yellow and I thought it was cool as hell.

 

[2000StreetRod]

1992 Explorer

The 1992 Ford Explorer you had was the 4.0L OHV V6. It had the same block made in Cologne, Germany as my SOHC V6. The valve timing was controlled via a chain and sprockets.

My XK-150 was the predecessor to the E-Type which I also had.
Mine looked just like the one below. Same color and 16 inch diameter knock off wire wheels and disc brakes on all wheels.

The engine was a 3.4L inline 6 cylinder that would easily rev above 6,000 rpm.

 

[imp]

Have all of your past vehicles had overhead valve engines? My 1983 Volvo had an overhead cam engine with a timing belt that had to be changed every 70K miles. Most all of the newer higher performance/fuel economy engines have overhead cams with belts or chains that need periodic maintenance. My complaint with the Cologne/Ford SOHC V6 is that the right valve timing cassette is in the rear so the engine (or transmission) must be pulled to replace the cassette. My 1958 Jaguar XK-150 had dual overhead cams with double row timing chains but everything was in the front and could be replaced by removing the front timing cover.

This is as it should be. I wonder often just how much input Ford Engineering had on the OHC V-6; maybe the Germans designed the whole damned thing! imp

 

[Exproblems]

My XK-150 was the predecessor to the E-Type which I also had.
Mine looked just like the one below. Same color and 16 inch diameter knock off wire wheels and disc brakes on all wheels.
The engine was a 3.4L inline 6 cylinder that would easily rev above 6,000 rpm.

Wow, sharp,nice looking XK-150. Never saw a photo of one before. The E-type must have been what I saw in the 60's walking to school. My brother -in-law loved the Ford 300ci straight 6 motors that came in the Ford pickups and bought several of them over the years. My 1997 Jeep Grand Cherokee had a straight 6 motor and I liked it a lot. Easy to work on and it ran flawlessly. Kind of miss it at the moment.
I have a question, do they make corrected, stronger aftermarket guide tensioners for these 4.0L V-6 motor? Ones that won't break apart like the factory ones do? If my Explorer does have a bad right/ rear guide tensioner and they need to get another motor for it, I'd like my mechanic to install the corrected part into the new motor while it sits on en engine stand. I only want to go thru this disaster once. Thanks for all of your help and info!

 

[2000StreetRod]

improved timing chain related components

Ford made several improvements to camshaft timing chain related components. All of them were incorporated in the 2002 and later models. To my knowledge no improvements were made after that although the Mustang owners keep claiming the issues were fixed for the 2005 and later Mustangs. However, I think the Ford part numbers are identical for the later Mustangs vs the earlier Explorers.

 

[Exproblems]

However, I think the Ford part numbers are identical for the later Mustangs vs the earlier Explorers.

Okay, thanks for the info!

 

[Exproblems]

Update Part 2

Please post updates when you can. Hope it's nothing serious.

My mechanic just phoned me and told me my timing chain guide tensioners are okay, not the problem. Whew! :biggthump The compression test he did on all the cylinders checked out okay and good. He said the timing chain did not "jump time". He said while working on the engine, he could hear the timing chain tensioners rattle a little, but that was because the cylinders were flooded with excess fuel. He also said I was getting plenty of spark thru the wires. He then asked me where I get my fuel from and I told him usually at Sunoco or Mobil stations nearby. He asked if I may have put in Flex Fuel by mistake and I told him I don't really know if I did or not. He may try to get a sample of the fuel and do a test on it. He said all the cylinders were flooded with gas and the plugs were fouled out because of the gas. He also told me to "NEVER" use anti-seize compound on the plugs threads, said it can cause you to over torque the plugs and block the ground for the plug. I installed new plugs 2 months ago and used a little anti-seize compound on the threads. He said no plug manufacturer would warrant a plug that had anti-seize compound used on it. He also said my battery was weak and I told him it came new with the truck 2 1/2 years ago and haven't had a problem with it till now. So for now the old plugs are out of the engine letting the cylinders dry out and he will install a new set of Bosch Double Platinum Plugs and he believes it will fire right up after that. I may also need a new battery and an oil and filter change. With the cylinders getting flooded with gas, some gas may have gotten in the oil. If all goes well, I should get the vehicle back later today.
Note on the Bosch Plugs: My mechanic said he prefers Bosch or NGK plugs and uses Bosch in his own personal vehicles which are Fords. He said Autolite plugs for the last 6 or 7 years have been made by the Honeywell Thermostat Company who bought out the Autolite company back then. He said he hasn't used Autolite plugs since the company was bought out by Honeywell.

Update: I spoke to my mechanic again, the truck started up and ran for a short time after installing the new plugs then died out. He will be doing another compression test tomorrow and go from there. MY gut feeling tells me it is a timing chain tensioner issue after all. I hope I'm wrong. I won't post any further updates till I get a definite answer as to what the problem is. Sorry for any confusion.

***Update Part 2: On Wednesday, my mechanic phoned me to tell me that my Explorer's engine did indeed have a problem with the "right bank" or "rear" timing chain/tensioner. After doing a 2nd compression test, the results showed "zero" compression on the right bank and "140" on the left bank. He told me he did not have the specialized tools needed to do this type of repair and recommended I have the vehicle towed to a Ford Dealership, which I did that day. It is now awaiting the Ford mechanics to do their own diagnosis on the problem. With the upcoming Labor Day Holiday coming, it might not be until next week when I hear something on the Ford diagnosis of the problem. I will update again once I get the next diagnosis from Ford.

 

[Bobmbx]

So for now the old plugs are out of the engine letting the cylinders dry out and he will install a new set of Bosch Double Platinum Plugs and he believes it will fire right up after that.

Note on the Bosch Plugs: My mechanic said he prefers Bosch or NGK plugs and uses Bosch in his own personal vehicles which are Fords. He said Autolite plugs for the last 6 or 7 years have been made by the Honeywell Thermostat Company who bought out the Autolite company back then. He said he hasn't used Autolite plugs since the company was bought out by Honeywell.

Expecting comment from JoeDirt in 3....2.....1......

 

[Exproblems]

Expecting comment from JoeDirt in 3....2.....1......

Everyone has their own preference on what parts to use. I was just posting up what my mechanic of 30+ years told me. On further check that I did, Honeywell took over Autloite in 1999 then sold it's auto parts manufacturing division to the Fram group in 2011 who now makes the Autolite plug.