2020 ST - Low Oil Pressure causing Rattle?

[BobT2k]

After accelerating hard to merge into traffic yesterday I started getting what i'd call a "strong rattle" when accelerating (2000-3000 RPM's) or when the car was in sport mode and the transmission / engine staying in engaged as it slowed down. I was able to reproduce a rattle in the driveway between those RPMs... I scheduled service for next week, but when i went to parallel park today all of a sudden i got a really rough idle almost to the point of stalling. When i started up again, the same thing, with a check engine line and the car in limp mode. I drove straight to the dealer and left it there for service. I also received two warnings via the myford app - one saying "engine control system has detected a misalignment between the engines internal components. This fault can also occur from improper oil usage of improper engine oil maintance" and the other saying there was a misfire.

When i checked with the dealer late today they said they did the oil change i requested, and that that fixed the problem, though they were going to test drive it again in the morning. (I can see that i got the same errors when they drove it into the shop, but not when they drove it back out). They said the oil was like it hadn't been changed in 10,000 miles... though the last time it was changed was 7500miles ago by them.. and that i never went more than the counter and usually between 5k and 7.5k between changes.

So I'll post an update in morning when they test drive it... But has anyone seen anything similar? There was no low oil pressure warning or anything, but they said it was low. Just the check engine lights. And I never knew low oil pressure could cause those symptoms.... But if they are right, I'm going to switch back to at most every 5k on the oil change.

 

[Turdle]

Or, maybe they didn't actually change the oil last service.

 

[BobT2k]

Or, maybe they didn't actually change the oil last service.

If low / old oil can suddenly cause those symptoms... then yeah it would have been more like 16k if they lied during the last service.

Yeah... I think regardless its time to search for a new place for service... Because either they are telling me a story now, or were then.

anyone have luck with either of the Performance Ford's in North Jersey?

 

[hbalek]

After accelerating hard to merge into traffic yesterday I started getting what i'd call a "strong rattle" when accelerating (2000-3000 RPM's) or when the car was in sport mode and the transmission / engine staying in engaged as it slowed down. I was able to reproduce a rattle in the driveway between those RPMs... I scheduled service for next week, but when i went to parallel park today all of a sudden i got a really rough idle almost to the point of stalling. When i started up again, the same thing, with a check engine line and the car in limp mode. I drove straight to the dealer and left it there for service. I also received two warnings via the myford app - one saying "engine control system has detected a misalignment between the engines internal components. This fault can also occur from improper oil usage of improper engine oil maintance" and the other saying there was a misfire.

When i checked with the dealer late today they said they did the oil change i requested, and that that fixed the problem, though they were going to test drive it again in the morning. (I can see that i got the same errors when they drove it into the shop, but not when they drove it back out). They said the oil was like it hadn't been changed in 10,000 miles... though the last time it was changed was 7500miles ago by them.. and that i never went more than the counter and usually between 5k and 7.5k between changes.

So I'll post an update in morning when they test drive it... But has anyone seen anything similar? There was no low oil pressure warning or anything, but they said it was low. Just the check engine lights. And I never knew low oil pressure could cause those symptoms.... But if they are right, I'm going to switch back to at most every 5k on the oil change.

I change mine every 4K miles since the dealer talked me into the VIP plan which includes oil changes and tire rotations and a few other perks.

 

[Dale5403]

I change mine every 4K miles since the dealer talked me into the VIP plan which includes oil changes and tire rotations and a few other perks.

Better to often than waiting to long.

 

[BobT2k]

Better to often than waiting to long.

So low oil pressure / long changes (which i didn't have) were not the cause... since the ST had the same sound the next day. Waited to get in the queue for the senior technician and when i called yesterday the service advisor told me that they were working with the ford extended warranty folks to "take the engine apart" step by step to find the problem and wouldn't be able to give me a time frame until Tuesday afternoon when they completed those steps. Considering this is the same dealer that took 6 months to realize they didn't tighten a bolt when they replaced an axel... I'm not quite sure i'm going to be comfortable with the ST after they put it back together. And i may be unrealistic, but would have expected a phone call before they started to take apart the engine to diagnose (though i guess i signed the paper work saying they should diagnose and fix.)

That said, anyone have luck with Ford on escalating such issues... I really wanted to get to 100k on the ST, but I'm getting the feeling that my lack of confidence in the quality of the repair will point me towards a new vehicle this month... and it would be nice if Ford helped keep me in a ford after the last 18 months of service....

 

[slow3v]

So low oil pressure / long changes (which i didn't have) were not the cause... since the ST had the same sound the next day. Waited to get in the queue for the senior technician and when i called yesterday the service advisor told me that they were working with the ford extended warranty folks to "take the engine apart" step by step to find the problem and wouldn't be able to give me a time frame until Tuesday afternoon when they completed those steps. Considering this is the same dealer that took 6 months to realize they didn't tighten a bolt when they replaced an axel... I'm not quite sure i'm going to be comfortable with the ST after they put it back together. And i may be unrealistic, but would have expected a phone call before they started to take apart the engine to diagnose (though i guess i signed the paper work saying they should diagnose and fix.)

That said, anyone have luck with Ford on escalating such issues... I really wanted to get to 100k on the ST, but I'm getting the feeling that my lack of confidence in the quality of the repair will point me towards a new vehicle this month... and it would be nice if Ford helped keep me in a ford after the last 18 months of service....

I would absolutely call Ford directly. It costs you nothing and there is a good chance they will help in some way.

 

[BobT2k]

I would absolutely call Ford directly. It costs you nothing and there is a good chance they will help in some way.

I reached out via chat and they were not helpful at all. I haven’t gotten an answer of what the issue is, but apparently the engine needs to be sent out for repair it replaced…. So something went really wrong.

 

[Sea_Ray]

If I had the means I would dump it and Ford. This coming from a person who Never owned a used car and never owned anything other than a Ford except for a Volvo S60 24T for a few years. Ford support via phone is worse than Comcast.

 

[BobT2k]

For those playing along at home... it was a piston bearing that went at 61k. took three weeks for extended warranty approvals but replacing the engine this week. I haven't seen on here, or in google, much reporting of similar issues so I'm suspecting I just won the the lottery so to speak....

 

[bobter3]

For those playing along at home... it was a piston bearing that went at 61k. took three weeks for extended warranty approvals but replacing the engine this week. I haven't seen on here, or in google, much reporting of similar issues so I'm suspecting I just won the the lottery so to speak....

For those playing along at home... it was a piston bearing that went at 61k. took three weeks for extended warranty approvals but replacing the engine this week. I haven't seen on here, or in google, much reporting of similar issues so I'm suspecting I just won the the lottery so to speak....

Are they going with reman or a complete new long block? What about turbos? I would be a little concerned about all parts that are oil lubricated that could have metal shavings/debris in. Not sure how they could flush the entire system to get all out. If they fluff it off, ask to get in writing that it's not related to engine failure.

 

[BobT2k]

thanks. regardless... i think i'm in the market to trade it in and get a 2023 when i get it back for all of these reasons. i don't trust the place doing service after my experience with the loose bolt last year and now their lack of transparency here.... fool me twice shame on me.

 

[BobT2k]

So final update.. not because i think the car is fixed.. but because i don't own it anymore... 4 weeks for them to diagnose and replace the long block (I learned what that means.. .funny how things get named)... drive it off the lot and check engine light on... apparently they broke a sensor with the turbo putting the engine back in (their words, not mine)... ordered the part... reordered it when the wrong one came... they kept it an extra day to "test" it (which, since i tracked the car, meant the service manage drove it home that night and back the next day... Picked it up at noon... drove it that night and while better, still seamed off... traded it in at a different dealer the next day and when i got home realized there was fresh oil in the driveway where i had parked the 2020... So... best decision i even made getting rid of it.

To be fair, i don't think there's anything wrong with the explorers in general... i just hit the 1 in million defect lottery. I do think there's something wrong with the deal service.. which is ashame because i've had great service from them for 14 years prior to the last.

 

[bobter3]

So final update.. not because i think the car is fixed.. but because i don't own it anymore... 4 weeks for them to diagnose and replace the long block (I learned what that means.. .funny how things get named)... drive it off the lot and check engine light on... apparently they broke a sensor with the turbo putting the engine back in (their words, not mine)... ordered the part... reordered it when the wrong one came... they kept it an extra day to "test" it (which, since i tracked the car, meant the service manage drove it home that night and back the next day... Picked it up at noon... drove it that night and while better, still seamed off... traded it in at a different dealer the next day and when i got home realized there was fresh oil in the driveway where i had parked the 2020... So... best decision i even made getting rid of it.

To be fair, i don't think there's anything wrong with the explorers in general... i just hit the 1 in million defect lottery. I do think there's something wrong with the deal service.. which is ashame because i've had great service from them for 14 years prior to the last.

Did you trade for the 2023 ST in your signature? or something else?

 

[BobT2k]

for the 2023 ST.. pretty much the same car minus a few things (the massage seats and self parking that i never used, and appartnly they no longer have the center cup holder between the captains chairs.).

Like i said, i really think my experience was bad luck / dealer service and not representative of the ST or explorer itself... so much so that I replaced it in kind.

 

[Cajun Heat]

This is from ZFG Tuning.

Caution: I just want to bring something to everyone attention. Tuned or stock if you are going to be doing hard launches in your truck/car one of the things everyone should be paying attention to in the data logs and in general, is oil pressure. I've have been seeing this enough lately that it is becoming a little concerning.If you look at the oil pressure in this snip of a data log, you can see they is big drop in oil pressure on the launch. I'm seeing this on 3.5l f150s and 3.0l Explorer STs. As you race and push your vehicle harder and harder this is something you need to look for, a lot of times it will end up coming down to the oil being a little low on the dip stick, and once the oil is returned to the full level, it stops happening. However, for the guys that a leaving really hard, the issue seem to persist. One way to make it better, has been to over fill the oil by 1/2 quart. Obviously low oil pressure under full power is problem, eventually it will lead to a bearing failure. There seems to be a lot of 2019 F150s with main bearing failures (stock and tuned), and I'm not saying this is the root cause of that but I'm confident that it is a contributing factor to the failures.

I recommend using a data logging device such as HP tuners because in general, the oil pressure on the dash displays tends to lies a little. It is typicality a times weighted average if it's digital, and if it is analog the gauge sweep often isn't linear. So those may not show the dip, where as if you are looking an HP tuners data log you can sample the oil pressure sensor up to every 10ms which is way more resolution than you need to see the dip.

I'm going to reach out some vendors to see if we can get started on a baffled oil pan to help prevent this issue. In the mean time, if you are going racing or you plan on doing a lot of hard launches you should be data logging and looking for this.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk

 

[JnK311]

For those playing along at home... it was a piston bearing that went at 61k. took three weeks for extended warranty approvals but replacing the engine this week. I haven't seen on here, or in google, much reporting of similar issues so I'm suspecting I just won the the lottery so to speak....

Well I can tell you you're not alone same thing just happened to ours today almost exactly even down to the mileage.

 

[BobT2k]

Well I can tell you you're not alone same thing just happened to ours today almost exactly even down to the mileage.

good luck... hope the process getting the short block replaced is more timely than mine was, and that they don't break the turbo putting it back together like mine.

 

[JnK311]

good luck... hope the process getting the short block replaced is more timely than mine was, and that they don't break the turbo putting it back together like mine.

Believe it or not going surprisingly well so far. 2020 Had 59,3xx miles on it. Had it towed in yesterday, dealer called today and said they found metal in all areas, engine and turbos i assume. They ordered new long block and turbos, oil lines, etc. Said the parts should be here Monday and done hopefully next week. Gave us a 2024 to drive til it was finished. I was honestly expecting this to be a major fight. I just wonder if they have fixed some of these issues in the new long blocks.. going to be more cautious for a while for sure.

 

[BobT2k]

Believe it or not going surprisingly well so far. 2020 Had 59,3xx miles on it. Had it towed in yesterday, dealer called today and said they found metal in all areas, engine and turbos i assume. They ordered new long block and turbos, oil lines, etc. Said the parts should be here Monday and done hopefully next week. Gave us a 2024 to drive til it was finished. I was honestly expecting this to be a major fight. I just wonder if they have fixed some of these issues in the new long blocks.. going to be more cautious for a while for sure.

So is under the powertrain warranty since its under 60k? I think my issue was a combination of extended warranty / short staff due to covid / long lead times / the dealer's service department imploding. They had to take pictures of everything for the extended warranty and it seemed liek they took a picture one day, the next day the warranty asked them to take something else apart and take that picture. Then it took 2 weeks to get the short block. So fingers crossed for you.