Bowling For Columbine

[KEbert]

Yester I had the enlightening exerience of seeing the new movie by Michael Moore, Bowling For Columbine. I don't want to deeply explain it to you guys because I really encourage everyone to see it. For those of you not familiar with Michael Moore, he is a movie director and political commentator. He is the author of a recent book, Stupid White Men and the director of the movie Roger and Me.

Bowling For Colubine, however, is questioning the reasons for such a high gun-related homocide count in America, when many other countries have similar gun-to-person rations and an extremley lower homocide count. Please, do your self the favor, see this movie. Please don't put you political views in front of you to prevent yourself from seeing.

 

[CoryL]

I can't stand Michael Moore and refuse to see any more of his movies.

I don't want ANY of my money going into his pocket.

 

[Bshmastr]

Originally posted by CoryL
I can't stand Michael Moore and refuse to see any of his movies.

I don't want ANY of my money going into his pocket.

Agreed.

 

[KEbert]

By no means am I trying to start an argument, but may I ask, why?

 

[DocVijay]

I don't dislike him that much, but to me he does seem to have a "If you don't share my opinion you're an idiot" kind of attitude. He's just a typical extreme left wing jerk. Some of his stuff is good, though.

 

[rgiles]

Can't stand Mr Moore either and don't want to pad his pockets. I am a strong believer in the 2nd ammendment for historical and futurisic reasons. All totalitarian governments are big supporters of gun control so it's no surprise that leftists are also. Guns are what made this country free, and it's what can keep it free for many centuries to come.

In countries that don't have high murder rates from guns, have murder rates from stabbing, poisoning, drowning, pushing down stairs etc. No one bothers to compare that. And in countries that have gun control, the criminals get the guns anyway and wreak havok on the unprotected populace. The violent crime rate in Australia went way up when they took all of the guns away. The criminals had free reign to commit robberies with guns. Can you imagine if they did that here, only the honest law abiding citizens would turn in their guns, and the criminals would go wild.

Communities in this country that have promoted Right to Carry laws have seen declines in crime, that's a fact.

Ok so I can't put my politics aside to go see the movie. I've had plenty of years to think about it and have decided that I won't let the elitist Liberals take my guns because when it comes to protecting your family, usually the police arrive when its an investigation rather than preventing anything. When there is anarchy who's going to protect you? You have a right to self defense so guns are a good weapon of choice for that.

And a final thought, the right to bear arms was put into the constitution more as a protection against a government that is oppressing the people than it was for personal protection. So we have the power to overthrow it if necessary (God forbid we ever need to)

 

[mmpc]

I don't especially care for Michael Moore's political views either, but he can be clever on occasion. I remember enjoying many segments on his short-lived TV series TV Nation and some of his work encourages you to think for yourself.

Unfortunately, however, much of his stuff has a strong political slant (to the left, for those counting) while trying to appear like it's unbiased. That said, I'll probably see Bowling for Columbine (probably on video), if for no other reason than I live in Littleton and have met/worked with several of the families of Columbine victims/survivors.

 

[CoryL]

He is a typical lefty elitest that thinks because he "claims" to hate big business (yet rakes in money with his books and movies) and look out for the little guy, that he is somehow better than everyone else.

He is a card carrying Life Member of the NRA.

I see it as a way for him to make it seem like he is somehow more knowledgeable about guns. So when other lefties want to argue gun control, they can say, "Look, Mr. Moore is a member of the NRA and he is speaking out FOR more gun control." It gives him an advantage.

That would be like one of us wheelers joining the Sierra Club for the sole purpose of giving us an advantage when arguing with an eco-nazi.

 

[mattadams]

nothing like using a tragedy to line ones own pockets... I've seen some of his stuff and agree with mmpc, it ticks me off how he tries to appear unbiased but yet hes obviously extremely left wing... if your left wing at least do like the rest of the media and dont try to hide it . Anyways I won't be seeing hte video anytime soon, maybe when it coems out on video.

 

[ld50]

I`ve heard comments from people who`ve seen it in my Country (Can) and twice now, I`ve heard the phrase "those Americans are f*****n nuts!"
The figures on shooting deaths are staggering though, as compared to here, but you know it`s a ***** to reload with our beaver pelt lined gloves on while standing in a snowbank.

Waaayyy to much hassle to legally own a firearm in Canada, too.
I strongly believe in the right to own them though.

 

[NoBoundaries]

Not sure if anyone heard this or not, but he was on O'Reilly and made an interesting (to say the least) comment on the government.

It is his belief that American's should give 60% of what they make to the government. Moreover, anyone that makes any substantial amount of money should pay 70% to the government. (Not to mention the fact that Americans already do pay that much, he wants to see them pay more) As to any reason why, I have no idea, but it's an obvious display of the understanding that more money/government will solve our problems.

If you ever want to watch someone with an honest, practical political/social commentary, watch Stossel.

I have to agree though; from everything I have seen with Moore, he's as an elitist that follows idealistic theory rather than rational practicality.

This is with all due respect Kyle, I'm simply going on what I have seen from the guy. I’d kick myself if consciously I put money into his pocket knowing full well before hand that he represents his own idealism rather than truth. I have no problem listening to an honest debate or perspective on other people's opinions, but I don't believe he offers that same respect, nor uses any sound reasoning for his thoughts.

 

[Robb]

I like some of his views, I dislike some of his views.

But I believe he serves a great purpose...........to make you think. I think most people get caught up in how they have always thought and to have someone throw a completely opposite view right in their face makes them rethink why they have thought the way they do. I personally love when someone challenges my views and makes me validate them to myself, it keeps me from getting stale.

I listen to Robert D Rayford everyday for the same purpose.

Robb

 

[NoBoundaries]

I think there are more constructive ways to get people to think.

This guy just tells you the way things should be. He doesn't even open things up for debate. That's the one thing that through me back when he was on O'Reilly. He said it straight, "people should give 60% of their income to the federal government." He wasn't opening it up for thoughts, he just said that's the way it should be, no rhyme or reason.

If anything, he closes people to opposing views (for the most part just his), because he makes statements with no backing and is "stale" in his own right because of it.

The only example he serves is that simply being a contrarian can get you a book, a movie and a spot on tv.

He doesn't inflame the passions or thoughts of people, he makes the worst of them, he makes them indifferent.

 

[mmpc]

Originally posted by NoBoundaries
He doesn't inflame the passions or thoughts of people...

We're talking about him and his movie, are we not? I just continue to be happy I live in a country where there can be a Michael Moore - like him or hate him - asking sometimes infuriating questions.

BTW, you mentioned Bill O'Reilly, I'm a big fan. I think he's one of the best journalists and commentators in the history of television news.

 

[DeagleDave]

well i think if nothing else it's gonna be funny. and i seriously doubt he's gonna make a fortune off of it. and even if he does good for him. i may not agree with all his views but he found a way to make a lot of money the good old capitalist way. and few documentaries make it to the big screen nowadays so i figure "what the hell"

 

[CoryL]

Originally posted by DeagleDave
i may not agree with all his views but he found a way to make a lot of money the good old capitalist way.

Yeah, but he is preaching socialism (aka redistribution of wealth) while benefiting off capitalism.

It is called hypocisy and it is typical of liberal elitests. They already benefited off of capitalism so they espouse their beliefs to make themselves seem compassionate.

If Michael Moore really cared about "working class people" he wouldn't propose massive tax increases. He probably believes you can just tax the rich more. So then the rich aren't so rich anymore. So then you have a nice sinusoidal (sp) path of people going from poor, to rich, and back to poor. Instability at it's finest.

 

[DeagleDave]

that's the beauty of free speech my friend. you can express your views, now this doesn't mean that everyone has to agree with you but you can express your thoughts, words, feeling and so on however you want. just so happens he has done it on the silver screen and from what i saw in the previews looks like he's just exposing the holes in the gun laws and how easy it is to obtain a firearm. i think we should all see it then express our views afterwards.

 

[CoryL]

The only problem with the 50,000+ gun laws is that they aren't ENFORCED enough.

 

[KEbert]

Originally posted by DeagleDave
that's the beauty of free speech my friend. you can express your views, now this doesn't mean that everyone has to agree with you but you can express your thoughts, words, feeling and so on however you want. just so happens he has done it on the silver screen and from what i saw in the previews looks like he's just exposing the holes in the gun laws and how easy it is to obtain a firearm. i think we should all see it then express our views afterwards.

This was exactly my point. People put these pre-conceived notions about Moore in front of them and never see this movie. This isn't a liberal propaganda movie. It isn't a movie to soley benefit the pocket of Moore. It isn't a movie that it's profit is derived from a national tragedy. This movie is educational. It was created for the exploitation of gun-nuts in America. This is why I am encouraging everyone to see it.

If Michael Moore really cared about "working class people" he wouldn't propose massive tax increases. He probably believes you can just tax the rich more. So then the rich aren't so rich anymore. So then you have a nice sinusoidal (sp) path of people going from poor, to rich, and back to poor. Instability at it's finest.

Actually, in his opinion (and mine), this tax increase would benefit working class citizen's, and lower class citizens. His socialist ideas would bring affordable housing to those who need it, medical care that is affordable and not owned by corporations that don't give a flying f about the patients (only their money), and quality education to EVERY child. Not only those that live in counties that have money.

Socailism is not exctly a bad thing. Americans view at as "taking away their freedoms" and preventing the right to a prosperous life. It prevents the rich from being filthy rich and that, is an atrocity.

But enough with my rant. Just see the movie because it is apparent that you guys have no idea what it is about.

 

[CoryL]

Originally posted by KEbert
This was exactly my point. People put these pre-conceived notions about Moore in front of them and never see this movie. This isn't a liberal propaganda movie. It isn't a movie to soley benefit the pocket of Moore. It isn't a movie that it's profit is derived from a national tragedy. This movie is educational. It was created for the exploitation of gun-nuts in America. This is why I am encouraging everyone to see it.

Pre-conceived? I have already read and seen some of his other works, so I am pretty sure I know what his intentions are.

Actually, in his opinion (and mine), this tax increase would benefit working class citizen's, and lower class citizens. His socialist ideas would bring affordable housing to those who need it, medical care that is affordable and not owned by corporations that don't give a flying f about the patients (only their money), and quality education to EVERY child. Not only those that live in counties that have money.

60% tax across the board? The point of that is that EVERYONE would become dependant on the Government to exhist. No thanks, I think I will decide how to spend MY money.

Socailism is not exctly a bad thing. Americans view at as "taking away their freedoms" and preventing the right to a prosperous life. It prevents the rich from being filthy rich and that, is an atrocity.

In theory it's not too bad. In practice is SUCKS. I view it as becoming dependant on the Government for just about everything and the only people I want to depend on are my family members and close friends.

Have you ever lived in a country that had predominately socialistic views? I have. Spend four years living in central Europe (Germany and Belgium). Sure things are more equal and there are fewer "filthy" rich people, however those that are "equal" ALL struggle. It is very expensive to live over there and with a lot of your paycheck going to various taxes, you don't have much left in the end.


Why is it that people HATE the rich? Jealousy? Some pre-conceived notion that they are evil people?

There are two kinds of rich people. Those that were born into it and those that WORKED HARD for it.

Answer me this: would you rather live in a country where you have the opportunity to become wealthy or live in a country where you don't, no matter how hard you work? Please don't say that me becoming rich is at the expense of someone else. My working hard is independent of that.

Easy choice for me.