Somebody help us!

[thaywood]

Perhaps Ford isn't trying to 'compete' with the others. As I said before the Durango isn't even sold here. The Flex isn't an off-roader and and I don't believe the Edge has the Terrain Management System and doesn't have the same towing capacity . The Escape is a compact. The Explorer is still a very capable off road vehicle as the reviews have pointed out.

Ford, like all other automotive manufacturers, have to "compete" with each other in various vehicle classes. It's been going on since the car was invented. Otherwise, they creat low volume niche vehicles that suck money out of the company. Now that Ford is out of the midsize SUV game and heavily into the CUV sandbox, that leaves Dodge, Jeep, Nissan, and Toyota still producing real RWD SUV's. The more Ford takes itself out of the game, the more sales it will lose. And now that the Flexplorer is on the same platform as the Flex, Taurus, MKS, and various Volvo's, tech will invariably be shared between them. Thus the Flex (if it survives another model year) may get some of the drivetrain goodies from the Flexplorer, effectively putting it into competition with its own sibling. If Ford eliminates all it's SUV's in favor of FWD crossovers, they'll saturate the market and lose sales and money as their own products compete against each other.

The 4Runner and FJ have always been in a class of their own as far as I'm concerned.

That may be. But according to everyone else, including pretty much every automotive publication I've ever read as well as the EPA, they are midsize SUV's just like the outgoing Explorer. Therefore, they used to compete in the same market as the Explorer. But not anymore.

Watching some of those TV documentaries you very often see the 4Runner. Never recall seeing the old Explorer.

I've never seen any of the documentaries you speak of. But I don't watch that much TV.

Again, it is market driven research that dictated the change so let's 'stop beating a dead horse'.

Dodge, Jeep, Toyota, Nissan, etc. must be getting their "market research" information from different sources. I think Ford's beancounters dictated the change. Instead of spending the time and money necessary to update the current Explorer with a new chassis, body, interior, engine, and drivetrain to keep it competetive in the market it created, they decided to use an existing platform that was languishing on dealership lots (the Flex) and slap a familiar name on it so it would sell and they could recoup some of their losses. The Flex is on its way out. And for Ford to justify the cost of the platform, they need sales. The logical course of action was to use the platform and put a name on it that will be instantly recognizable as a high quality, well known product. That way, it will sell well, at least initially and the beancounters will be able to justify the cost of producing the platfrom when the Flex goes away. At least that's what I heard...

Accept it. Get over it and move on! As indicated in another post, the 2011 Explorer is listed as #8 in the top 10 vehicle ratings.

I've accepted it. I have no choice. It's a done deal. But that doesn't mean I have to like it. I'll ***** and moan and complain as much as I please. At least until the Flexplorer flops and Ford is forced to bring back the real Explorer again and I get to say "I told ya so!"...ahh...a man can dream

 

[Explorer nut]

The Flex is too ugly to survive. The new X will return to the top of the SUV market because Ford listened to its customers.RWD will not be that big of an issue when
the other features[ mileage, looks, drivability, 3rd row] are dominant.
When Jeep advertises the GC over hard terrain they are clueless of the market
as most drivers never take their SUV off the Interstate Hwy.

 

[thaywood]

My '94 goes off road every single time I drive it. But that's because I live down a mile long dirt road that is riddled with potholes, washboards, and when it rains, grand canyon-size gullies. And my 16 year old, worn out Exploder takes it like it was built for it...wait...it was!!!!!

Point being, most SUV drivers won't venture off road. But it's nice to know that you could if you needed to...or wanted to. And there are plenty of us who do actually like to venture off the beaten path and use our SUV's for more than just going to the grocery store or taking the kids to school. We are the ones Jeep is catering to (although I can't afford one). And they seem to be doing quite well. Especially considering that the GK has been a V-8 powered RWD SUV since it's inception.

 

[2TimingTom]

Or this can be seen as a total game changer for Ford. Yeah sure they are going away from a RWD, "normal" facing engine with the new Explorer while the rest of the market holds still. But maybe Ford is just the first manufacturer to do so. If Ford is successful with the new Explorer (and I think they will be), then I wouldn't be at all surprised to see other manufacturer's following suit. I mean, afterall, as someone pointed out in a different 2011 thread (thaywood?), the Explorer was the first real evolution of the SUV and the rest just followed. Maybe we are witnessing the next evolution.

It's a different strategy, that for sure. But that's what Ford thinks will work for them. Boeing and Airbus have different strategies for how to handle commercial air travel. Boeing is more in favor of point-to-point type flying while Airbus favors the hub-and-spoke approach. Each have a lot riding on each theory- Boeing has the new 787 and Airbus has the A380. Boeing appears to be winning.

Point is, you can't keep producing the same ho-hum stuff over and over. Ford thinks the market is ready for this new direction with the Explorer and it's going with it.

I think they will win in the end.

 

[peterk9]

Point being, most SUV drivers won't venture off road. But it's nice to know that you could if you needed to...or wanted to.

Many of the test drive reviews I have read said that Explorer will perform pretty well all off road functions with the exception of 'rock crawling'.
Also just read an article in the local paper that Ford is now #1 in Canada, surpassing GM. They must be doing something right!!

 

[Joe Dirt]

I'm heeding the advice given to me- stop the logic, guys. Then again, maybe we all need to go to the other side where the real technology is?

...because resistance is futile.

 

[thaywood]

Or this can be seen as a total game changer for Ford. Yeah sure they are going away from a RWD, "normal" facing engine with the new Explorer while the rest of the market holds still.

But you see, the rest of the market isn't "holding still". Every one of the SUV's that the Explorer used to compete with have been constantly updated and improved. The Jeep and Dodge are only the latest to get updates, upgrades, and improvements to keep them current. Converting to a sideways engine with wrong-wheel-drive isn't an improvement. It isn't moving forward.

But maybe Ford is just the first manufacturer to do so.

I seriously doubt it. Jeep's flagship will never go wrong-wheel-drive. Jeep knows how to build a real SUV. And that's RWD with a V-8 and a real 4x4 system. Toytoa's 4-Runner and FJ-Cruiser will never see a sideways engine driving the wrong wheels. They're not that stupid. Even Dodge had the good sense to base their newest Durango on the newest Jeep. Nissan? I don't know for sure if they'll go CUV or not. But I doubt it. Ford's on its own with this one I believe.

If Ford is successful with the new Explorer (and I think they will be), then I wouldn't be at all surprised to see other manufacturer's following suit.

Again, I seriously doubt it. If the other manufacturers have any good sense, that is. I think Jeep, Dodge, Toyota, and Nissan actually know that men still buy SUV's. Ford seems to have forgotten that.

I mean, afterall, as someone pointed out in a different 2011 thread (thaywood?), the Explorer was the first real evolution of the SUV and the rest just followed. Maybe we are witnessing the next evolution.

God, I hope not. If it is, then it's a "de"volution.

It's a different strategy, that for sure. But that's what Ford thinks will work for them. Boeing and Airbus have different strategies for how to handle commercial air travel. Boeing is more in favor of point-to-point type flying while Airbus favors the hub-and-spoke approach. Each have a lot riding on each theory- Boeing has the new 787 and Airbus has the A380. Boeing appears to be winning.

That's an interesting analogy. But I don't really think it applies. Planes are planes. They're all "technically" RWD with the jet's thrust exiting the rear and propelling the plane forward. The engines may be placed on the wings or the tail. But the overall design of a jet airplane is pretty much universal. Now if some company starts putting the engines on the nose of the plane...that'll be wierd.

Point is, you can't keep producing the same ho-hum stuff over and over. Ford thinks the market is ready for this new direction with the Explorer and it's going with it.

I agree. That's why the Explorer should have been updated/upgraded in the same fashion as the Jeep and Dodge. New body, engines, suspensions, interiors, features, etc. But keep the RWD and proper 4x4 system. I don't care what anyone tries to say, FWD is not a "requirement" in any market.

I think they will win in the end.

You could be right. But I sincerely hope not.

 

[2TimingTom]

Now if some company starts putting the engines on the nose of the plane...that'll be wierd.

Whoa! Arquably one of the most popular airplanes in the world. And apparently "FWD" by your definition.

I think Jeep, Dodge, Toyota, and Nissan actually know that men still buy SUV's

Actually, by the stereotypical definition, don't "real men" drive trucks, and not SUV's? Maybe real men buy SUV's for their wifes. Calling any Explorer a truck is a debatable affair. Clearly, it's an SUV, but is an SUV a truck? I can take a truck down to the gravel yard and get a front end loader to dump a scoop of gravel into the bed. Take an Explorer to do the same..... even with a sunroof, it's not going to work very well- gonna need a trailer. And at that point, I could be towing that trailer with just about anything- RWD, FWD, AWD.

 

[peterk9]

I just have 2 things to say to that.

 

[edge929]

@thaywood
I have never met somebody who hates not-RWD as much as you and at this point I'm genuinely interested in the psychological path you took to reach the conclusion that anything-but-RWD is inferior. Sit down (if you're not already), explore your inner child and tell therapist-Edge how this all started. Did you work as a mechanic for 20 years and cut your hand one too many times on FWD drive-trains or did you're dog get run over by a minivan when you were a kid? What? It's gotta be something.

I've driven all drive-trains including ones where tracks hit the pavement instead of tires (no I wasn't blowing up Iraqis with the M1 Abrams) and unless I'm driving a sports car or trying to get through 3 feet of snow, I really, really don't care what the drive-train is.

 

[2TimingTom]

@thaywood
<snip>It's gotta be something.

Yeah, he lives in the backwoods of North Carolina- NASCAR country: where FWD production cars go to become tube framed, V8, carburated, RWD, "racecars". I'm actually shocked that he seems to be able to string together inteligable thoughts in his posts.

and thaywood, all in good fun. I have a buddy in Huntersville, NC that works for one 'o them NASCAR teams and have heard too many stories about the locals.

 

[peterk9]

I'm 64, driving since 16, and I've driven RWD, FWD and AWD. AWD (full time) the last 10 years with 3 Highlanders and my preference, in order, would be AWD, FWD, RWD. Sorry about that thaywood.

 

[FLOffroad]

Wow - I go on vacation, come back, and all hell's broken loose here!

Unfortunately, thaywood, I must agree that Ford isn't making the 2011 to compete with the 4Runner, GC, Xterra, etc. Ford even said they made the 2011 Ex to compete with Highlander, etc., which, I agree, is pathetic.

Also, I think that with all this SUV to crossover (but keeping the SUV name) business, there should be a revival of the phrase "Utility vehicle." It's still used abroad to differentiate between a minivan or car with ground clearance and a vehicle that can seriously go offroad. For some reason, most in America just grabbed on to "SUV" like glue, and "utility vehicle" came to mean "4wd box" (but since when were those a bad thing?).

 

[thaywood]

Whoa! Arquably one of the most popular airplanes in the world. And apparently "FWD" by your definition.

Oops. Had a feeling that would happen. I was specifically referring to "jets".

Actually, by the stereotypical definition, don't "real men" drive trucks, and not SUV's? Maybe real men buy SUV's for their wifes. Calling any Explorer a truck is a debatable affair. Clearly, it's an SUV, but is an SUV a truck? I can take a truck down to the gravel yard and get a front end loader to dump a scoop of gravel into the bed. Take an Explorer to do the same..... even with a sunroof, it's not going to work very well- gonna need a trailer. And at that point, I could be towing that trailer with just about anything- RWD, FWD, AWD.

My Explorer is a truck. It's just not a "pickup" truck. It's built on a truck frame. It has "Twin Traction Beam" front suspension, just like the old Ranger and F-Series. It has a solid rear axle with leaf springs. Basically, it's a 4-door pickup with a permanent camper shell. As far as men buying SUV's for our wives is concerned, my wife doesn't like my Explorer. She prefers her Lincoln Mark VIII LSC. I also like my Mark VIII, but I drive the Exploder more often. I take the hot rod Lincoln out when I feel like slinging it around some twisties and doing smokey REAR WHEEL burnouts or powersliding or any of those things that wrong-wheel-drive cars can't do.

@thaywood
I have never met somebody who hates not-RWD as much as you and at this point I'm genuinely interested in the psychological path you took to reach the conclusion that anything-but-RWD is inferior. Sit down (if you're not already), explore your inner child and tell therapist-Edge how this all started. Did you work as a mechanic for 20 years and cut your hand one too many times on FWD drive-trains or did you're dog get run over by a minivan when you were a kid? What? It's gotta be something.

I've driven all drive-trains including ones where tracks hit the pavement instead of tires (no I wasn't blowing up Iraqis with the M1 Abrams) and unless I'm driving a sports car or trying to get through 3 feet of snow, I really, really don't care what the drive-train is.

Well, doc, it's like this: Actually, I had a wrench in my hand before I could walk. I helped my dad work on all the vehicles my family has ever owned. The only FWD vehicle anyone in my family has ever owned was a 1984 Ford Escort wagon with a 1.9L 4-banger with a 5-speed. Thankfully, my parents got rid of the thing after only a year of ownership. Dad hated that "sideways engine *******" as he called it. That was actually the first wrong-wheel-drive car I had ever seen. When I looked under the hood, I asked dad why the heck anyone would put the engine in there like that. It's almost impossible to get to anything without picking the engine up off it's mounts. And you'd have to put five u-joints on it to get the drive shaft to snake around the engine to the rear wheels. When he told me it was FWD, my brain just could not comprehend why anyone in their right mind would build a car that way. It made no sense. Since then, I've worked on my share of the crappy-a$$ POS's and I still can't stand 'em. I like to drive "spiritedly". RWD offers much better handling dynamics mostly due to better weight distribution. And you never, ever have to worry about torque steer in a RWD car. That's why I love my Lincoln Mark VIII. It's well balanced, powerful, fast, and handles great. Plus it looks fantastic doing it. And BTW, I've got nothing against AWD. As long as it's rear-biased or 50/50 torque split, full-time. AWD is great for handling. But it don't do squat if it's a front-biased, part-time system. Basically, with a sideways engined ******* with AWD, you're driving a FWD car 99% of the time. Which sucks.

Yeah, he lives in the backwoods of North Carolina- NASCAR country: where FWD production cars go to become tube framed, V8, carburated, RWD, "racecars".

Honestly, I hate NASCAR for exactly those reasons.

I'm actually shocked that he seems to be able to string together inteligable thoughts in his posts.

Duh. Yelp. I are a plum fart smeller...er... smart feller. I is kollej ejumikated...

and thaywood, all in good fun. I have a buddy in Huntersville, NC that works for one 'o them NASCAR teams and have heard too many stories about the locals.

NASCAR is a joke.