starter keeps running

[sumless]

Hiya, on the way home I heard a strange new noise. Once home I turned
off the ignition but the starter kept turning over the engine! I quickly popped
the hood and disconnected the battery. I was thinking it was the Starter
solinode (On passengers side near the battery) so I disconnect that but when I reconnected the battery the starter engaged. Is there a relay
on the starter? Am I totally loosing my mind? lol

Help

Thanks in Advance!
-Joe

 

[schmidlkofer]

there is a relay..ii jusst dont know where it is. do you have a haynes manual?

 

[Tbars4]

sumless, it says you have a 94 ??? ranger/explorer/4x2/4x4 ??? it could be a relay and it could be a bad starter...the bendix in the starter could be hung up...:scratch:

 

[MountaineerGreen]

I'll bet the starter gear or flywheel may be missing a few teeth if the starter was engaged for that long.

 

[sumless]

Yes its a 94, 4.0 I don't think I've killed the starter or teeth on the fly wheel. It was a very short distance less than 35mph, so I'm hoping (crossed fingers) that not too much damage was done.
I'm puzzled as to why the darn thing is getting engaging/powering up. Most of the fords I've owned get fed from a starter solinoid on the passengers side
of the engine comparartment. Unhooking that didn't seem to do anything. It
looks like there is a direct connection/cable going to the starter from the + on the battery. Its gotten cooler outside now so I will be taking a closer look at this mess. I might need to actually (to minimize cost) put a relay in between the battery and the starter.

TIA
-Joe

 

[sumless]

Oh, sorry Explorer.

 

[Tbars4]

...add that info to your signature...
....it could be a short at your starter solenoid but you say you do not have one??? if that part is bad that is a real cheap fix...

 

[sumless]

Thanks Tbars.
I'm used to the circuit being Battery----Solinoid---starter.
But looks like its battery------starter with a solinoid at or on the starter itself?

 

[Tbars4]

...on the first gen's you should be batt, starter relay, starter, as the small wire goes from the key itself to the starter relay on the passenger fender...second gen's have a starter relay in the relay box i believe....i am puzzled as why you don't have one...:scratch:
...if your starter/starter relay has shorted in the engaged position, this can be one of the signs of a bad starter or starter relay...

 

[CDW6212R]

Does not every 91-94 Explorer have a starter relay on the right fender? Find it and throw it away. Do not buy a non Ford starter relay. I have had a one month old Autozone starter relay hang up(on), and I now consider that a best quality item. Good luck with that 94 truck,

 

[Tbars4]

...yes they do, sorry for not including that but they are, located on the passenger fender...

 

[CDW6212R]

Joe is off right now, hopefully he will come back and tell us that he found the relay. I really do not like the new Ford's having the relay on the starter. That is dumb, the fender location was just about Ford's best idea.

 

[sumless]

Ok, oddly I have a large gauge wire that goes directly to the starter. In my previous experience usually that wire goes to the Starter soliniod located on the passenger fender. I think maybe there is a relay on the starter? Its quite odd. Of course After disconnecting the large gauge wire from the batt. and connecting the batt to roll the windows up (rain/storm) I touched the wire back to the + term and not the starter is not engaging. I disconnected the Batt reconnected the large gauge wire to the + hookup and now its acting normal. Dumb luck maybe? Since I am going to be doing a large amount of driving in the near future (from MA to MI, the UP to be more percise) Does anyone know if there is a relay on the starter itself? Last thing I'd want is it to try engaging at 2000Rpm, for sure that will rip up the starter and flywheel.
Thanks
-Joe

 

[CDW6212R]

Joe, please tell us again what model of truck you have? If you have a 94 Explorer then you have the starter relay on the fender.

 

[sumless]

Sorry CDW, thought I had made that clear.
1994 Ford Explorer. What is odd is that when I disconnected the solinoid on the pass. side fender and connected the batt it still started turning over, no key in the ignition. As mentioned before I see a large gauge cable running from the + on the Batt directly to the Starter.
Perhaps the previous owner modified this??? I've always seen the feed to the stater come from that solinoid, thus the old trick of turning/starting it using a wrench at the soliniod.

Thanks

 

[CDW6212R]

Thanks for the update, I hope that some other real 94 Explorer owners will respond here. I had a 93 Explorer Limited, and the battery was only connected to the starter relay. All power was tapped off of that relay. I can't say what Ford might have done between the old system and the newer type with the starter relay on the starter. But I would guess that someone has messed with your basic power wiring.

Unless someone speaks up and suggest that Ford did something weird with that 94 wiring, I would yank the battery wire leading to the starter, and restore that all to be like the normal old Ford power wiring. There should be a short lead to the starter relay, and all other power wires going to that one relay stud, besides the starter wire. One wire should run from the starter relay out terminal to the starter solenoid on the starter.

Please let us know how this turns out. One of these days I may get inspired to undo this poor late model starter relay design. I very much prefer to have the starter relay easily accessible up high on the fender. I will always work on my own vehicles, and no manufacturer is going to stop me, whether they like it or not. Regards,

 

[Tbars4]

...sumless, it might help if you could post some pics of your setup...a picture is worth a thousand words...

 

[TedJ]

There ARE two relays. One on the starter, one on the firewall. Look at the schematic. You need the one on the starter, and should prolly pull it anyway to check for damage...

-Ted

 

[McMuddy]

Help....

Hi CDW....question from your previous post

There should be a short lead to the starter relay, and all other power wires going to that one relay stud, besides the starter wire. One wire should run from the starter relay out terminal to the starter solenoid on the starter.

Not sure if I have my wiring correct at the starter. I have one red light gauge wire (which comes out of the same harness as one of two heavier black wires) that goes to the smaller post on the solenoid. Now do both heavier black wires go to the second (larger) post on the solenoid and lastly, the third post on the starter (has a braided cable coming out of the side of the solenoid) is left alone I assume? The documentation that came with the new starter says to not remove the nut from this braided wire post so I'm not sure if any of the three wires need to go there or not.....

Anyway, My wife has a 94 Ranger - 4L 2WD with a starter problem (or I thought it was a starter problem). Turn the key, one single click and nothing. Tried tapping the starter....nothing, tried bypassing the starter relay/solenoid at the firewall with the old screw driver trick and I get a single loud click but nothing at the starter. Replaced the starter....still nothing except a single click. Checked voltage on one of the two heavier cables at the starter and get 12.7 volts so that doesn't appear to be a problem.

Any help would be appreciated....

Thanks

 

[CDW6212R]

The starter should have two terminals for wiring from the car. The third stud ought to be just the internal starter circuit, to operate the solenoid of the starter to engage the gears. I try not to mention that starter solenoid when talking about the older systems with a starter relay on the fender, which is a solenoid too.

I think the starter circuit is virtually the same for all 2nd gen Explorers, V6 or V8. I'm familiar with the 99 SOHC version and the 98 302 system, which both have one full power wire going to the starter, and one trigger wire there also.

I'm not sure when and how Ford changed the 1st gen OHV systems from the old type of a starter relay on the fender, to the new system. The older systems didn't have a battery power wire at the starter, just one wire and it comes from the fender relay.

Check your main ground wires that connect the engine to the body, and the grounds from the battery to the computer. Those wires do get corroded over a lot of years, and those can create the same problems as having no power in places. I hope this helps a little.