The Turbo 4.0L Explorer project...

Started a similar topic over in the the modified section, but figured it would be more helpfull in this section.. Mods, feel free to axe the other thread..

Here is the truck:

Fuel management, (megasquirt)

Turbo install

Currently at 4psi and working good... Turbo is a T4 with a .50 compressor and 1.18 exhaust.. I threw this setup together over the weekend with the spare parts I had laying around..

Cheers,

 

[Amac]

wood1 - Yes, I'm not real keen on hacking the dash either.. Don't really want to install the gauges, but curiosity always gets the best of me..

A single turbo from a K-car would be waaaay too restrictive on the exhaust side, and very inefficient on the compressor side.. Using both of them would make for a very responsive and fun street setup.. I was thinking of using the two smaller T3's I had on the 300 last year for this setup, but would have been a lot more work... Do the twins, I'd love to see it done..

Noslo50 - Superchargers are nice, but I don't like the extra crank snout strain or HP loss from running them.. Belts are a whole other can of worms, I friggin hate screwin around with them.. I gotta say though, if I had of had one laying around instead of the turbo, I would have thrown that on...

justin146 - It doesn't spool as fast as I would like it, but it's not too bad either.. I think I would be happier with a .8x housing.. I *think* the exhaust wheel is a p or q trim, but am not 100% atm as to the size.. If I'm cruising around and hit WOT it will get to 6psi in just over 1 second..

I get a lot of flack for that damn engine bay... ha ha.. I guess I should just finish painting the car eh? (Yes I'm Canadian..) Worst part about it is that I'm thinking of painting the car white with a silver pearl now instead of yellow.. /shrug.. I dunno.. Paint is low on the priority list ATM..

So I got some more tuning done with the truck and figured out what the problem was.. Me! My WB o2 was reading fine, I guess my expectations of what *reasonable* timing values were at different engine loads was a bit aggressive.. Have my AFR's sitting around 12.5, but am going to back it down to 12.0 for a cushion.. Non-intercooled == hot!

With better AFR's , boost went up to about 9psi.. I could tell when one of my turbo piping couplers blew.. Bought a new one and turned the boost down.. All is good now..

This is way too much fun..

Cheers,

 

[SVO]

Sure would like to see some pics of the modded y-pipe and how you managed to run it forward, plus the down pipe coming out of the turbo.






Thanx,

Jeff - :navajo:

 

[rocket 5979]

Turbo and centrifigulas are okay. But i hate lag POSTIVE DISPLACEMENT SUPERCHAGERS WITH SOME GIGGLE GAS NOW WERE TALKING FUN

While it is obvious I do like positive displacement superchargers I think you got only a portion of the information required to make a fair assessment. Take a ride in a properly setup turbo car and I bet you will not feel so one sided. Lag is a thing of the past. A turbo will also make tons more horsepower per pound of boost than a supercharger could ever think of making.

Let me put it this way....For now I am running 17 psi on the Kenne Bell and while on stock heads/cams only putting down around 525rwhp or so. If I were running a turbo at that same boost level I would be putting down probably over 650rwhp; only limited by the stocker heads/cams. Once I do my heads/cams if I were to stick with the KB I would only see maybe 650rwhp on 20+ psi. With a turbo I will be looking to hit close to 900rwhp with the same mods. Turbos are definitely fun too.

 

[Xan]

I get a lot of flack for that damn engine bay... ha ha.. I guess I should just finish painting the car eh? (Yes I'm Canadian..) Worst part about it is that I'm thinking of painting the car white with a silver pearl now instead of yellow.. /shrug.. I dunno.. Paint is low on the priority list ATM..

Yellow is the universal color of cowardliness.
Plus I’ve never thought any car looked great in yellow. Some look good but would look better in a different color

 

[Amac]

Sure would like to see some pics of the modded y-pipe and how you managed to run it forward, plus the down pipe coming out of the turbo.

Thanx,

Jeff - :navajo:

Slashy slashy...

Truck is still running awesome, and the ol trans is loving it.. (for now) Boost at about 10lbs, but I'm thinking I may turn it down...

Cheers,

 

[Noslo50]

While it is obvious I do like positive displacement superchargers I think you got only a portion of the information required to make a fair assessment. Take a ride in a properly setup turbo car and I bet you will not feel so one sided. Lag is a thing of the past. A turbo will also make tons more horsepower per pound of boost than a supercharger could ever think of making.

Let me put it this way....For now I am running 17 psi on the Kenne Bell and while on stock heads/cams only putting down around 525rwhp or so. If I were running a turbo at that same boost level I would be putting down probably over 650rwhp; only limited by the stocker heads/cams. Once I do my heads/cams if I were to stick with the KB I would only see maybe 650rwhp on 20+ psi. With a turbo I will be looking to hit close to 900rwhp with the same mods. Turbos are definitely fun too.

Ive rode in and driven many turbo cars, both on the street and at the track, Any type of boost is nice period. postive displacemnt will present more bottom end much faster than a turbo, esp when it's in a 4200 + lb vehicle, Also keep in mind a more efecient heads cam and exhaust will result in lower PSI but the results will be POSITVE! Keep up the work it's all good

One of the more recent turbo cars I had some help in building will be featured in Feb or March episode of PINKS where the Mustang site I also belong too, ripped up a Big Block chevy with a 400 shot against a 393 with Turbo. www.stangbangerz.com not to hyjack the thread.

 

[rocket 5979]

Ive rode in and driven many turbo cars, both on the street and at the track, Any type of boost is nice period. postive displacemnt will present more bottom end much faster than a turbo, esp when it's in a 4200 + lb vehicle, Also keep in mind a more efecient heads cam and exhaust will result in lower PSI but the results will be POSITVE! Keep up the work it's all good

One of the more recent turbo cars I had some help in building will be featured in Feb or March episode of PINKS where the Mustang site I also belong too, ripped up a Big Block chevy with a 400 shot against a 393 with Turbo. www.stangbangerz.com not to hyjack the thread.

You are speaking to the choir here man. I know what the PD blowers do as I have one sitting in my vehicle not 15 feet away as I type this. I do think that you overstate the "turbo lag" though. Turbo's will spool very quickly when setup correctly. The problem is that most people do not set their system up properly. They always go too large, usually just so that they can say they have a bigger turbo, and end up having terrible spool and bottom end power with very high peaky power (dyno queen). A turbo may lose out to the PD blower maybe up till about 2,500-3,000 rpms but from there on out pound for pound the PD blower is going to get raped in torque and horsepower too. It will only get nastier when you add ported heads and cams. The only way a PD blower can somewhat compete with a turbo in the regard of peak power is when you move on up to the big daddy blowers like the Whipple 3.3 liter and all that. Even my Kenne Bell 2.2 just flat out doesn't compete due to it being "too small" and gives up the ghost on the top end when going for big power. Scooting down the last few hundred feet of the 1320 it seems like the PD's are more coasting than really showing any appreciable acceleration; whereas a turbo vehicle would still be pulling like a freight train.

Like you said, PSI doesn't count for crap besides a measure of backpressure in the manifold, however, it is hard to have a CFM gauge so I guess we go with the next best thing. Either way increased flow will benefit both a turbo and a PD blower so they somewhat cancel each other out for this comparison.

It all comes to preference, but I believe that you posted somewhat inaccurate information. It just may have not been the most courteous thing to jump on this site into a thread where a fella is talking about his turbo build and start talking about how you do not really like turbo's due to their lag. Everyone has the right to their own opinion but there is a time and a place for that.

I would be more than willing to discuss this with you in another new thread if you want to start one. It might serve to educate a few people on this site as to the key differences (pro vs cons) of each type of forced induction choice. If you do start that thread then please send me a link so that I am aware of it.

 

[Jakee]

I just found the vids of the 300z over in the turbo forum. man, that thing looks fast.


What's up with those pipes coming from under the x. Looks like a big ole kink in them?

 

[Amac]

What's up with those pipes coming from under the x. Looks like a big ole kink in them?

Heh heh, those are my, um, "homemade" mandrel bends... To be honest I had 8 feet of 2.5 inch pipe and 5 feet of 3", and no bends.. I only had 2 days to get it done, so it was a *very* crude install.. Not proud of it, but it works... I guess that is a lie, I did have one 3" SS mandrel bend laying around that I used to dump under the frame..

4000km and still rolling strong.. Might source a smaller exhaust housing to help spool it faster.. I believe the exhaust wheel is a Q trim, so finding a .96 housing shouldn't be too hard..

Cheers,

 

[justin146]

4000km and still rolling strong.. Might source a smaller exhaust housing to help spool it faster.. I believe the exhaust wheel is a Q trim, so finding a .96 housing shouldn't be too hard..

Cheers,

Is it a divided housing? How about blocking off one side of the turbine? THis would turn your 1.18 housing into a .59 housing(which would probably be great on your 4.0)

 

[rocket 5979]

Is it a divided housing? How about blocking off one side of the turbine? THis would turn your 1.18 housing into a .59 housing(which would probably be great on your 4.0)

A .59 from the blocker plate would be pretty small on a 4.0 with a turbo mounted so close to the engine. That would work for a remote mounted turbo on a 4.0 but it will likely spool too soon and kill top end power.

 

[justin146]

A .59 from the blocker plate would be pretty small on a 4.0 with a turbo mounted so close to the engine. That would work for a remote mounted turbo on a 4.0 but it will likely spool too soon and kill top end power.

His turbo is a Q-trim- you think a .59 Q is too large for a 4.0? Even if it was a P-trim I dont think it would be too small. There was a guy at the Honda forums that datalogged a blocked 1.2 housing VS a .58 housing on a P-trim wheel and they were almost identical. And there are guys at theturboforums in the 10's with a .58 housing on 5liter engines.

 

[rocket 5979]

His turbo is a Q-trim- you think a .59 Q is too large for a 4.0? Even if it was a P-trim I dont think it would be too small. There was a guy at the Honda forums that datalogged a blocked 1.2 housing VS a .58 housing on a P-trim wheel and they were almost identical. And there are guys at theturboforums in the 10's with a .58 housing on 5liter engines.

And those guys in the 10's likely have a much larger turbo, or running twins. I am running a .58 housing on my 60 trim in the LS which is remote mounted. I think that going with that dramatic of a decrease of the turbine housing (blocked off divided tang) will result in much too quick a spool in this setup. I prefer a quicker spool on all street driven applications but this may be a little too far in that direction. It comes to what this guys preference is and what his overall power goals are.

 

[Amac]

Is it a divided housing? How about blocking off one side of the turbine? THis would turn your 1.18 housing into a .59 housing(which would probably be great on your 4.0)

Man, that is a fantastic idea! I never even thought of that.. It is indeed a divided housing, and I also have a 1.38 housing for this too that I can swap on if this one proves to be too small with one port blocked..

Guess I have a project on my hands now.. Time to find a T4 flange schematic and make a block off plate with a slope on the blocked side..

rocket 5979 - Don't forget, the 4.0L has a 5K redline, and I want to keep it under that to help the life span of this 200+ km engine..

Like you say, it is all about what my goals are, and I think that a tree stump pulling setup is where it is at for me.. I have no interest in racing or having a max power application with the Ex, because I already have one of those and it breaks a lot, and is expensive.. Something that can haul my car easily and get out into traffic is what I need..

Thanks for the input guys,

Cheers,

 

[Jakee]

Another good size for a 4.0 (Front mount) is a Precision tubo PT-61


Ahhh, I see what you did. You took the hood off, stuck the straight pipe down in the engine bay, and bent it into submission!!

Just giving you a hard time.

 

[rocket 5979]

Man, that is a fantastic idea! I never even thought of that.. It is indeed a divided housing, and I also have a 1.38 housing for this too that I can swap on if this one proves to be too small with one port blocked..

Guess I have a project on my hands now.. Time to find a T4 flange schematic and make a block off plate with a slope on the blocked side..

rocket 5979 - Don't forget, the 4.0L has a 5K redline, and I want to keep it under that to help the life span of this 200+ km engine..

Like you say, it is all about what my goals are, and I think that a tree stump pulling setup is where it is at for me.. I have no interest in racing or having a max power application with the Ex, because I already have one of those and it breaks a lot, and is expensive.. Something that can haul my car easily and get out into traffic is what I need..

Thanks for the input guys,

Cheers,

The block off plates are good idea's for certain setups that need them and do not want to purchase a whole new turbine housing. What you can do is if the plate end up blocking too much flow off where you are spooling too quickly for your liking just drill a few small holes in the blocked side and it will allow exhaust gasses to escape into the partially blocked side and slow spool down a bit. Since you have a few turbine housings you will have a decent amount of spooling options between those and the block off plate/drilled plate techniques.

I do not expect you to rev your 4.0 very high, but sometimes even when revving to 5,000 and having an excessively small turbine housing can lead to unwanted results. with the items you have on hand I believe you will be able to make something that will perform desirably to your preferences.

 

[jah81592]

let me know how that tranny holds up

I am with you, I don't see the A4LD living at all.

 

[rocket 5979]

I am with you, I don't see the A4LD living at all.

Whaaaaat? The A4LD's are BEASTS!!!

 

[CDW6212R]

Good thoughts here, but the two posts about the transmission are the most important. Unless built with every available upgrade part, and lower than 200k in age, I see a short future for that poor A4LD. Good luck though, it does sound like fun for the moment.

 

[jah81592]

5R55S with a PCS controller. The only prob would be the mechanical speedo. You could replace it with a electric style and the PCS controller would control that as well. This trans may live, I would definately keep the bands adjusted this is the life of a Ford tranny.