Yet another 4R55E question!

[banspy]

Being a forum virgin with this being my second post, I am really in need of more help. After spending countless hours reading through the posts about the flaring problem on the 4R55E transmissions I find myself at a loss as to my options.

I read Glaciers rebuild diary and frankentranny but I still have no idea where to begin. First let me say that my knowledge of transmissions is nil. I can wrench on other things but never done any work on a tranny except the oil and filter. Until I signed onto this site, I never would have tried to touch the inside of a trans.

Well to the point, while changing the oil and filter, I noticed that the internal wiring harness is frayed from rubbing. OK, maybe thats a problem! As is common (aparently), I too am having the flaring issue. It goes like this:
Flaring at 2-3, no OD. Trans goes into limp mode only allowing up to third gear. Once in a great while, it wont flare and everything is normal...for a minute until I have to slow under OD speed. Read the codes and it is coming up with PO761 (Shift solenoid 3 performance or stuck off). The flaring only happens on 2-3 and when I try to get into OD, the engine will rev to 5K RPM. Park to reverse is only slightly delayed, no other issues so far!

Here's what I've done...removed the solenoid cleaned it and taped the wiring. Same code, now I buy a new solenoid from ford at $70 along with the internal harness at $150. Replaced both, still doing the same thing with the flaring and throwing the code. (Bythe way, I also checked resistance at all solenoids coming up with about 26-28 ohms) OK...now what?

Checked the wiring all the way from the external connector to the PCM. Appears to have continuity, nothing out of the ordinary. I dont want to keep replacing parts in a hunt and peck manner to find the cause. So I guess my question is, should I just spring for a rebuilt valve body from a place like Phoenix hard parts because supposedly, all the valve body rebuilds come with the improved corrections and solenoids, or keep hunting and pecking with other things .

Of course, I also took it to the local AAMCO and they told me $750 just to drop the trans to "look inside" which would of course be included in the final rebuild bill. Notice the word rebuild before they even "looked inside" so I am not too fond of paying $750 just to have someone poke around looking for a reason to rebuild when I might be able to get away with a $200-300 part that I could probably do myself and save $2000-3000 smackers! By the way, I would much rather replace the whole valve body than trying to rebuild it myself and losing or dropping parts.

Thanks again for a great site and all the help!

 

[banspy]

One more thing, the flaring will not happen when the car firsts starts out like after being parked all day or night. It seems that before the car is warmed up it does not flare or when it does flare, I can still get the OD.

 

[BillJ]

Questions

I've been there in your shoes also. I did not think I would repair my transmission (99 xlt, 5r55e) myself but after reading the forum it gave me confidence that I could do it (fixed my 2-3 flare).

Recommendation:
1) Get a transmission service manual for your tranny (http://www.bulkpart.com/Merchant2/m...0R&Category_Code=4R44Emanuals&Product_Count=0)
2) You can get OEM parts cheaper through Dead Link Removed
3) I found the hardest part of the job was getting the tranny pan off (exhaust in the way) compared to working on the valve body. You will need some special tools like (in-lb torgue wrench and torx bits)
4) Read the following thread also: http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154655


Questions:
1) How many miles do you have on the tranny?
2) Did you find any metal in your tranny pan?
3) Have you had the bands adjusted?

If you take your time and are careful, rebuilding the valve body is no big deal. It also helps to have a backup ride to take the pressure off repairing your truck quickly. I would rather put in mods (ford update, new sep plate & gaskets, shift kit, EPC, etc..) then to put in a unkown assembly.

Good Luck,

 

[banspy]

Ok, for the questions...I am not the original owner so I not sure if the tranny had ever been rebuilt or even worked on. The truck has 123000miles and I know that someone has at least dropped the pan besides myself since the factory plug is gone and so is the magnet. As far as the metal shavings, I have found none when I put my own magnet in the pan. And since I've had the truck, no internal work has been done other than replacing shift solenoid#3,the internal wiring harness, and changing the oil and filter (three times trying to find the problem).

I have to admit, I'm getting more and more pissed thinking about it because it seems that I am just hunting for the problem and spending uneccessary $$$ instead of going at it head-on. You know, The tranny has been around for what 11 years and still I cannot seem to find any one person that has not had to hunt and peck to correct the problem...thats what is driving me nuts.

So, in reality, I really dont know where to start. Like I said, I replaced the solenoid that kept throwing the code, the wiring harness that was frayed, and I checked for continuity all the way up to the PCM. I dont know if another sensor could be causing the flaring or if the valve body is screwed up. I tightened the bolts and that didnt work either. I have also replaced the TPS. The Cam position sensor needs to be replaced but it'll have to wait a little bit. Could the speed sensor cause the flare or what about the range sensor? Bad PCM maybe? I'm totally dumdfounded. When I replaced the harness and solenoid, I thought that would solve the problem since they were both brand new. Didnt change a thing which makes me think electrical of some sorts but on the other hand, when the car is cold, there is no flare.

And to top that all off, The car just quit today it wont start with the key but, it fires right up with a remote starter so again, maybe an electrical problem or a bad ignition. I can deal with having to remote start it I just want this dang tranny problem to be fixed. I have one son, but I'd be willing to offer my next born to the man or woman that can solve mine and thousands of other problems with these ****ty trannys!

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE...any help you have I'd willing to try...(without putting me in the poorhouse). I ordered the manual today under your advice and now I just have to wait till it arrives to read a little more.

 

[BillJ]

No metal in the pan is a good sign.

I would first check the alternator is operating properly. From what Glacier (Chris) has said in the past, the tranny is elctronically controlled and problems with the alternator voltage could cause symptoms with the tranny.

Assumming the alternator is OK, the 2-3 flare problem is mostly due to a loss of pressure. The primary culprit is blown gaskets at the seperator plate. I admit that there has not been one common fix from what I have read.

If I had to do over again with keeping part costs down as an objective I would do the following:

1) Order the following Ford upgrades from Fast Parts: a) new seperator plate and gaskets, b) Ford vlave body service kit {cost ~$33}
2) Order the Superior Shift Kit {~$36}
3) Order a reverse servo cover gasket { a couple of bucks}
4) Pull out VB and perform upgrades from steps 1) & 2) (Note most people only do 1/2 of the steps of the Superior Kit)
5) Clean/test all the solenoids, clean and inspect the VB.
6) Install a tranny pan drain (makes going in again easier)
7) Align and torgue VB in four passes just under the torque specs.
8) Adjust bands (may want to order new band locknuts)
9) OPTION (I believe changing the solenoid O-rings might be a good idea,but this will add about $45 to the parts)

This should keep the cost down around $100 with ATF.

I'm not sure on the 4R55E, but it may be possible to replace a solenoid without dropping the VB again if the problem is not corrected. Glacier states it is a good idea to replace the EPC solenoid when the tranny has a lot of mileage but this is an expensive item. So if you do the above and the problem remains, then replacing the EPC may be warranted and all it will cost you is about 4 extra qts of ATF.

Bill

 

[toy720]

As far as the car not starting with the key. Mine had the same problem and it was in fact the digital range sensor. As far as the rest goes I will say that you could have vb issues and epc solenoid could be going bad even if it shows good with an ohm meter. I think your best bet would be to either rebuild the vb or get one somewhere like phoenix hard parts etc (ebay is good to) its really up to what you are willing to do.There are cheaper parts out there i would personally stay away from the dealer as they are making at least 50% markup on there parts?

 

[BillJ]

range sensor

One quick test for the range sensor (DTR) is to put the car in reverse (with key in start/on position) and check to see if the backup lights come on. This will tell you if it is properly aligned but not if it can't sense Park properly for the Start to happen.

I replaced my sensor (destroyed it trying to get to the band locknut) and I was able to get the OEM replacement part from the following vendor for about 1/2 what Ford charges.

http://www.acerecon.com

 

[banspy]

You wanna know whats funny Bill? I was saying that the car wouldnt start with the key and another gentleman thought it was the DTR. I thought that too but didnt know the name. Anyways, I drove the truck after remotely starting it and let me tell you, I have no reverse lights, and my key wont start the truck but my shifting has never been better.

The tranny went into limp mode and the OD is flashing but there is NO FLARE...oh yeah and I only have the first three gears so highway driving is out for now unless I stay right at 60 and piss everyone off doing 75. So what do you think...do you think that the DTR might, could, maybe, hopefully, be causing the flare if the PCM doesnt know that I selected OD3 on the column?

I'm almost tempted not to replace the DTR and just let it be...it would be gentler on the engine not having to rev to 5000 to shift, but I know deep down that limp mode probably isnt to good for the truck either.

THanks for all the handholding through this and the words of wisdom...I was getting ready to drive the truck into a wall to end its suffering!

 

[Glacier991]

I am a little confused what your current symptoms are exactly. At the start you were throwing a code and going into FMEM, do you still get a code? Or is your problem mainly a 2-3 flare now?

When diagnosing a flare or slide, it is important to consider what components are energized to effectuate the shift. Generally the delay in the shift which causes the problem can be traced to a poor response to the demand for actuation and this is more often than not related either to low hydraulic pressures or a slow fill of an actuator (like a servo).

In the A4LD, the intermediate band was used to effectuate the 1-2 shift. The same is true on the 4R44E. In the 4R55 and 5R55, 2nd gear is achieved by overdriving 1st gear, and the intermediate band in those transmissions is used to effectuate the 2-3 shift.

The servo that applies the intermediate band has to receive an appropriate quantity of pressurized fluid in a timely manner, and has to be able to hold that fluid without leakage to make a prompt application of the band. When you have a problem with this shift (1-2 in the A4LD and 2-3 in the 55 series) you should suspect possible valve body problems, including sticking spools or valve body gasket issues, also factoring in can be poor line rise issues (pressure regulator or pump or filter - but the latter usually shows up elsewhere as well) and occasionally band adjustment issues (adjust the band) and finally possible servo leakage of lack of integrity (these servos get fried by virtue of their proximity to the CAT). Addressing each of these will, in the majority of cases, address your flare/slide issue.

 

[banspy]

Glacier, in the begining I was throwing a PO761-Shift solenoid C (3) stuck off or performance. That was the only code tranny wise that was being given. At that point I was having a flare 2-3 and no or very rare OD. I replaced the solenoids (the four shifting but not TCC or EPC) and I replaced the internal wiring harness. No change in problem, still having a 2-3 flare. OD light didnt flash so the truck didnt quite go into limp mode because some days, I could get OD if I babied the upshift.

A couple of days ago, my range sensor went kapput. The truck definately went into limp mode and OD started flashing. The CEL went on once but turned off after a few minutes and has not been back. As of right this moment, I have not read the codes, my reader is being borrowed and AZ says theirs is lost. With the range sensor going out, my shifting appears better. Throughout 1-2, 2-3, the shifting is smooth (no high RPM flare at 2-3). Albeit, I cannot get OD while the DTR is acting up but the flare is gone. So I guess to answer your question, the issue has always been the 2-3 flare with none or intermitent OD. But now, the flare does not happen since the DTR went out. Definately no OD, and lots of OD light flashing. Have not gotten the codes read as of yet.

Does that make sense or should I find a place to read the codes and get back to you after that?

 

[Glacier991]

Yes let's start there. The fact that sometimes it shifts just fine rules out a leaking intermediate servo, those problems do not come and go (though cold vs. hot can affect them). I am maybe thinking we are dealing with an electrical gremlin here somehow.

 

[banspy]

My thoughts exactly!...I took the truck for a long drive nothing above 60 though, some city, some cruise control, and some at around 60MPH just so I could get a good reading from the CEL and PCM.

Anyways, got the codes read and the PO761 is gone but as I figured, I had the PO708-Range sensor problem. Cleared all the codes then drove it again for a while doing the exact same driving before I had them read. This time no PO761 at all, the flare doesnt happen and it appears to shift fine without OD of course. The OD light is still flashing but not that big of a deal. I had other codes related to emission but that is to be expected since my CMP sensor is faulty. So The codes I'm getting is PO340, PO1151, and the PO708.

So this brings me full circle again...at a loss! I was thinking electrical as well but hearing the horror stories from the other members, I dont know what to think. I'm wondering if the PCM is on the way out and thats what is causing the earlier flaring and now maybe the DTR sensor to act up. My thinking is that if there were some kind of leakage or VB problem, I would notice something in all shift patterns and even when the trans is in limp it would do it since theorectically, there would be no energizing by the computer to fire the solenoids. But on the other hand, if there were some band adjustment that needed to be done, then I would have burning of the fluid and a different type of slip yes / no?

 

[Glacier991]

In reverse order... I am doubting you have a simple band adjustment issue. So let's put that aside for now.

A leak would not necessarily affect all shifting patterns, but the fact you do FINE at some times when warmed up belies a leak (thinking valve body gasket kind of leak here). I doubt you have a leak.

Your P0708 is of course your range sensor, but that could be causing the EPC to raise pressures... masking other problems. The best way to approach this is to replace that TRS and eliminate any codes and then see what we have symptom wise.

 

[BillJ]

In the Haynes manual they have some continuity checks that can be done at the terminals of the sensor. I will try to attach the page of manual here. Also might be intersting to see if you can adjust the sensor so the reverse lights come on (mark curent alignment before breaking).


Also here is a link to the sensor I took off my 99 XLT (5r55e): http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32653&stc=1