Re-build or just solenoids?! P0741 & P1741.

[citizen.spark]

Hi guys! First time posting here but I am a long time reader... let me give a little background into my situation. I bought my 2000 Ford Explorer Limited about 5 years ago with 150k. She currently is at 188k. I recently took a road trip about 2 hours out of town. When I got into town, I stopped at a gas station, turned the car off. I get back out to the vehicle and leave, and try to go up a slight hill and my rpm's shot up even though I was barely going. Great...The codes I'm getting are 0741 and 1741. Since then, I cannot go over 35-40mph unless I turn the overdrive off. If I'm just doing in town driving (under 35 mph) it seems to drive fine, although the RPM's are higher than I would like.

To try and remedy some of this, I pulled some of the transmission fluid out and added in Lucas Trans Fix and that may have been what saved me and was able to get me home. I wasn't able to take the interstate home since there's no way I could get up to that speed. I had to take a back highway and have my hazards on. I was able to go max speed of about 50 mph but at 3500 rpms.

My next question is, where do I have my mechanic start? There is a slight language barrier but he knows pretty good English. I want to order the parts before I take my vehicle in, so everything is ready to go. I'm a single mom and obviously, Christmas is coming. There's no way I can afford a rebuild but I can manage by starting small and replacing the TCC, which all signs are pointing to that...

Can you guys offer me any advice on where to start and what to try? Like I said, I'm an avid reader here and have never been so desperate for an answer like I am now. I've had the codes cleared and they haven't came back on, however, my RPM's are still pretty high if I try to go past 30 mph...

If I've missed any details, please let me know and I will be happy to respond.

 

[drdoom]

Is the TCIL flashing (O/D OFF light)?
Can you or the mechanic get a live data stream with a scan tool? You want to look specifically at the TCC solenoid and the slip percentage. And also shift solenoid firing and faults. Also what does the fluid look like?
The torque converter itself is likely the problem, although the P0741 code is tricky to diagnose, due to the somewhat complex electronic, electrical, and hydraulic command hierarchy that controls the Torque Converter Clutch.

 

[citizen.spark]

Is the TCIL flashing (O/D OFF light)?
Can you or the mechanic get a live data stream with a scan tool? You want to look specifically at the TCC solenoid and the slip percentage. And also shift solenoid firing and faults. Also what does the fluid look like?
The torque converter itself is likely the problem, although the P0741 code is tricky to diagnose, due to the somewhat complex electronic, electrical, and hydraulic command hierarchy that controls the Torque Converter Clutch.

I myself don't have a scan tool, but my hopes are getting it in to the mechanic tomorrow. The fluid didn't appear to be bad at all, when looking at it from the stick. After pulling some out like I mentioned it looked much more rough. Doesn't smell burnt but it is much darker than it appeared earlier, which wasn't a complete surprise. It will look darker in a clear bottle compared to just a small amount on the white tip of the dipstick...

The O/D lights came on (flashing) when I arrived in the town I drove to. I had them read and they continued to go on or off intermittently. After driving back to my home town, they were still flashing and I had them read again and cleared. (same codes.) They haven't appeared back on until about 30 minutes ago. I was driving down the road and I wanted to see if it would behave the same and it did. If I can manage to creep the speed up to 38-40 mph, then let off the gas a little and drop speed, then push back on the gas to return to that speed, the rpm's just go up and not the speed. That's when I would have to either manually turn off O/D (even to go any faster (which I did). Then, the lights began to flash again. When I reached my destination, turned the car off, went inside, came back out a few minutes later, started the vehicle to leave, and no lights.

It's strange, almost like my rpm needle and my speedometer needle are working in parallel. They are at almost the same position across the gauges. Also, I don't know what significance this is, I'm sure some of you might have an idea, but the vehicle begins to "shudder" pretty bad between 22 mph (it begins) and about 30 mph (when it ends.) It feels like you're "pushing through it" however, its like I'm stuck in that gear... I have many symptoms and things I can hopefully tie experiences with, I'm just not sure what to post here and/or how it relates.

I can't tell you how excited I was to see that I had a reply to my post. Thank you so much and I'm continuing to look for any help by all of you guys!

 

[CDW6212R]

Diagnosing with proper steps outlined in the shop manuals may point to the specific issue, but it could be both small things(serviceable), and wear of the hard parts(non serviceable, trans has to come apart on a bench).

In any case, the trans, like all automatics, can benefit from upgrades of the small serviceable parts. Even if the rebuild items are part of the issue, the parts put into it while the trans is in the car, are helpful and should be kept/used, if a rebuild is required.

You didn't say what engine or trans you have, but either trans has many parts that can be replaced by a competent mechanic familiar with transmission work.

The solenoids should all be changed, as well as all of the accumulators. There are various other valve body parts available from Sonnax, which will improve VB functions.

The 4R70W has a couple of extra aftermarket upgrade parts available, plus no cost VB plate hole sizes to alter(the J'mod). The 5R55E only has the 2-3 VB kits to choose from, which do help, plus a Sonnax tip/trick of inserting a set screw into a couple of the trans case worm tracks(the case fluid passages(which flex or vibrate in use and can create leaks of the gasket(wear by that movement))). Consult the Sonnax website for fairly good details, and they have a tech line to support their products.

I would not drive that vehicle if at all possible. Driving an automatic with an issue usually creates more wear, not the normal clutch wear, but other hard parts damaged by excessive heat. In the 5R trans, that can add $500-1k in additional costs of a rebuild. The biggest problem is future failures are very likely, if a vehicle is driven until it stops moving and the fluid is black. Do not wait until it stops moving, stop before extra damage is done.

 

[citizen.spark]

Diagnosing with proper steps outlined in the shop manuals may point to the specific issue, but it could be both small things(serviceable), and wear of the hard parts(non serviceable, trans has to come apart on a bench).

In any case, the trans, like all automatics, can benefit from upgrades of the small serviceable parts. Even if the rebuild items are part of the issue, the parts put into it while the trans is in the car, are helpful and should be kept/used, if a rebuild is required.

You didn't say what engine or trans you have, but either trans has many parts that can be replaced by a competent mechanic familiar with transmission work.

The solenoids should all be changed, as well as all of the accumulators. There are various other valve body parts available from Sonnax, which will improve VB functions.

The 4R70W has a couple of extra aftermarket upgrade parts available, plus no cost VB plate hole sizes to alter(the J'mod). The 5R55E only has the 2-3 VB kits to choose from, which do help, plus a Sonnax tip/trick of inserting a set screw into a couple of the trans case worm tracks(the case fluid passages(which flex or vibrate in use and can create leaks of the gasket(wear by that movement))). Consult the Sonnax website for fairly good details, and they have a tech line to support their products.

I would not drive that vehicle if at all possible. Driving an automatic with an issue usually creates more wear, not the normal clutch wear, but other hard parts damaged by excessive heat. In the 5R trans, that can add $500-1k in additional costs of a rebuild. The biggest problem is future failures are very likely, if a vehicle is driven until it stops moving and the fluid is black. Do not wait until it stops moving, stop before extra damage is done.

I have a 2000 Explorer Limited, the 5.0 V8 AWD. I'm not familiar with all of the forum rules, or if you are allowed to post links here, but could you point me in the direction of what parts to buy? I'm guessing most of the shops here won't have my specific parts in stock so I don't mind ordering them ahead of time. I just need to know *what* to order and probably from where. I've gotten by with getting things from Auto Zone or O'Reilly's but I'm sure there are more experienced opinions on here that can point me to a more reputable source? This vehicle is my baby. I've taken care of her since day 1 of me owning it and I hate to see this be the end of her. A relative might have a vehicle that I can use so if it is recommended for me to not drive this vehicle at all, then absolutely I can park it...I'm about in tears over this, as it seems most others have husbands or uncles or know a mechanic friend, and I, have none of those. Again, my thanks to all of you for your time in replying to my post.

 

[citizen.spark]

Also, don't know what this adds to the discussion, but I remember at some point during all of this, trying to set the cruise control. When I did this, the rpm's went up VERY quickly but my speed did not. Of course, it startled me and I wasn't ready for that kind of a response, so I immediately pressed the brake to disengage the cruise. I haven't attempted that again..

 

[CDW6212R]

Good to know you have the 302 and 4R70W, those are great and almost any shop can work on them easily.

What did the fluid look like when it first had the issue, and was it at the full mark? The best hope is that the fluid level was a little low, or possibly the EPC solenoid is going bad. That EPC is the main fluid control solenoid, if it malfunctions it can result in odd symptoms like slipping which could end up with rpm's rising fast etc.

What are those two codes in words, what do they point at?

Unless the codes definitely suggest a bad failure requiring a rebuild, I would get the parts I mentioned changed. The Jerry's Mod is a modification you could skip for later if really wanted/needed.

Here's the main Sonnax part(4R70W-LB1) I would do for any 4R70W, Rock Auto carries it too for about $60, but this was in a search looking for another good parts source, I haven't bought from them before. You can use the part number to find it from Rock Auto if you like, finding things from RA is tough if they aren't common items or if they are specialty stuff, but they do have a lot of them.
4R70W-LB1 - Ford AODE 4R70W 4R75E 4R75W Transmission Line Pressure Booster Kit

I saw the AODE-4R75E-ZIP Sonnax kit there but it's $130, I got one last week for $107 on Amazon. That's the big kit that has all the best VB parts except for the line boost kit above; https://www.amazon.com/Sonnax-AODE4R75EZIP-4R70W-AODE-4R75E/dp/B071VXZXT6

In the Zip kit, there are many parts just for internal use in a rebuild, those don't get used(extra parts) unless a rebuild is done. There is also a new boost valve that should not be used, because the Line Boost kit above is much better(it was designed recently past when this kit was created years before). So Sonnax hasn't revised the Zip kit, which they should IMO. The kit is still very good because the many parts you do need, are cheaper in the kit than buying them as separate parts, which they do sell.

Here's the servo cover and pistons kit I got on Amazon long ago, these and the solenoids are the main wear parts; https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B017Y515Q6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The solenoids are kind of easy to find from many sources also, this too is from Amazon; https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AAVW0GQ/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A2QOROTAURQN0I&psc=1

The filter needs to be for a 4WD, not a 2WD, and the original gasket can be reused if it's not hurt by mishandling.

 

[MakinJeepsWeep!]

Anyone have any info on what friction plates they went with and how they worked? Doing a full rebuild of my 4r70w due to a leak starting on front seal to much work to get down to not go ahead and rebuild it with 275k on it. I used alto plates in my aod hot rod 5.0 set up and they have been great holding power but there are so many other brands out there and cheaper ones. I was really leaning to the hybrid or waffle cut reybestos ones. Been around a long time and have always heard good things about them. Just looking for any tips or extra info someone might have. I know im in a old thread but its the first one that came up with my search sorry.

 

[CDW6212R]

The frictions are easy to choose now, just go with the OEM level Raybestos, most rebuild kits come with those. Those are what almost everybody uses in high powered vehicles.

 

[MakinJeepsWeep!]

Thanks, and yes the super master rebuild kit im looking at has the waffle cut oem rays in it already and its a true complete kit so i guess that sums that up time to make the wallet cry between that and a new TC!

 

[CDW6212R]

Try to find a TC from a nice brand, hopefully with some reviews. I gather that there are some poor replacement TC's out there, someone here took one off that had the studs barely on, one broken off. I liked the SOHC 4.0 unit I got as suggested by John(his 99 supercharged Explorer), I think that's a good brand. I don't recall that name, but it was not much over $150.

 

[MakinJeepsWeep!]

I thought they had different bolt patterns? This one has the 12in converter. I have been doing alot of shopping around and reading hopefully getting a good one, really dont feel like wrestling that beast of a trans to the ground again if i dont have too.

 

[CDW6212R]

I just meant choose one you like, the 4.0 example was a brand I believe makes all kinds of replacement TC's.

 

[MakinJeepsWeep!]

Oh gotcha gotcha, I think im going to go with the one from Baumann at US shift.com Those guys helped with the info to build up that aod and its been a go getter since day one and still chirping tires every gear to this day.

 

[C420sailor]

Nice...I agree...buy once, cry once. I never regret investing in good parts, but I often regret trying to save a buck...

 

[MakinJeepsWeep!]

Sir! I will be stealing that statement from for future post haha! That's I freaking true!