5.0 timing cover removal struggle

[Mitchs07explorer]

if you drop the diff ( three bolts hold it , front driveshaft , ect , you may have enough room without pulling the halfshafts out and just letting the diff droop ) its gonna be a fiddley job no doubt but very doable and well worth using the one piece gasket ,

Awesome! Thanks for the info, I'd much rather have the gasket be in one piece.

 

[CDW6212R]

The front differential is a big pain to remove, or just hang it and hope it's out of the way of the pan. I'd start by checking the pan bolts, rarely they are a bit loose after this age.

Mine were basically tight, and I could get to all of them, on my AWD 98. I have a slight weeping under the filter area, mine might only be the timing cover corner area, but it isn't enough to need to deal with the pan.

If the pan bolts are tight, and the leak is so bad from the pan, then it needs to be fixed somehow. But start with the pan bolts, and clean the area well along the pan and TC. If the leak might not be the pan, or enough you can tell is bad, I'd leave the pan in place if possible. It's a tough call, clean it up well and think on it hard.

 

[Mitchs07explorer]

The front differential is a big pain to remove, or just hang it and hope it's out of the way of the pan. I'd start by checking the pan bolts, rarely they are a bit loose after this age.

Mine were basically tight, and I could get to all of them, on my AWD 98. I have a slight weeping under the filter area, mine might only be the timing cover corner area, but it isn't enough to need to deal with the pan.

If the pan bolts are tight, and the leak is so bad from the pan, then it needs to be fixed somehow. But start with the pan bolts, and clean the area well along the pan and TC. If the leak might not be the pan, or enough you can tell is bad, I'd leave the pan in place if possible. It's a tough call, clean it up well and think on it hard.

Hard to know what to do, it's a project car so I don't need it to get around and can take my time with it but in the same light I don't want to get into a situation I can't handle. Replacing this timing chain is the first big engine repair I've attempted.
I'll get under the car and take a good look at it, clean it really well, tighten the pan bolts like you suggested and see if that does it. Otherwise I'll have to give it a try because I won't be able to stand the smell of burning oil

 

[Turdle]

Yeah the steering rack is also in the way, pan will not drop far enough to run gasket around oil pick up

 

[Mitchs07explorer]

Yeah the steering rack is also in the way, pan will not drop far enough to run gasket around oil pick up

So would I have to do what you did when you had to replace your pan? Pull all that front end stuff and then lift the engine a bit?

 

[CDW6212R]

If you do change the pan gasket, cutting it at one point will work great. No sense in adding tons of time just to be able to have it remain in one piece. RTV can easily seal two ends butted together. Just make sure the surfaces sealed with RTV are clean and dry, and use Ultra Black, or the Ultra Grey, or blue, or copper etc. Amazon has the best price for it recently, about $5 each most of the time.

 

[Mitchs07explorer]

If you do change the pan gasket, cutting it at one point will work great. No sense in adding tons of time just to be able to have it remain in one piece. RTV can easily seal two ends butted together. Just make sure the surfaces sealed with RTV are clean and dry, and use Ultra Black, or the Ultra Grey, or blue, or copper etc. Amazon has the best price for it recently, about $5 each most of the time.

I think the 1 cut method is what I'm going to try, I'm ordering the gasket right now.

 

[Turdle]

So would I have to do what you did when you had to replace your pan? Pull all that front end stuff and then lift the engine a bit?

What you see in those pictures is very dangerous and at your own risk. I do not recommend it at all.

Usually when an engine is lifted from it's mounts the oil pan is used as a support point. Can't do this if you are removing the pan.

IMO the only way to properly set a new oil pan gasket is to pull out the engine, or, at the very least attach an engine lift to the heads. even with the lift though there is no safety measure for a failing ram which might collapse, and, keep in mind your hands will be working between the oil pan and block.

 

[fastpakr]

You should be able to insert something between the mount and mounting plate to prevent it from falling down. As I recall, I used small 2x4 blocks years ago when doing an F150 5.0 oil pan in similar fashion.

 

[CDW6212R]

To change the pan gasket should take a couple of inches of gap, all the way around, at the least. You need to be able to get in the space and verify the two surfaces are clean of buildup where the new gasket will seal. If it's nice and clean, the rubber gaskets will seal without sealant(plus RTV at corners/seams). But if it's not clear or the gasket is some cheap cork junk, then you've got to put RTV on both sides of the gasket etc. Don't do that, that's the old very PITA way it had to be done 30+ years ago.

Jon, will the pan drop enough to do it, or does the diff, or engine have to move some? I haven't had any pan unbolted in these, I've only cleaned and tightened in those spaces.

 

[Mitchs07explorer]

I think I'm going to forgo trying to keep the gasket in one piece and just cut it and see if I can just go around the oil pan. I'll get a good idea after the gasket arrives and I take a good look at my working space. Otherwise I agree that the safest thing to do is pull the engine. Ultimately that would be my last resort but if I unbolt the pan and for whatever reason can't get a new gasket on properly I'll be headed down to harbor freight for shop crane. My wife will not be happy with that purchase lol. Although if I do the main rear I'll need one anyway. The thing about pulling my the engine (including my lack of experience) is I know I'll probably break a bunch of the plastic stuff vacuum hoses, lines, etc...) this thing just keeps getting more and more expensive on the things that I don't want to have to spend money on

 

[Mitchs07explorer]

To change the pan gasket should take a couple of inches of gap, all the way around, at the least. You need to be able to get in the space and verify the two surfaces are clean of buildup where the new gasket will seal. If it's nice and clean, the rubber gaskets will seal without sealant(plus RTV at corners/seams). But if it's not clear or the gasket is some cheap cork junk, then you've got to put RTV on both sides of the gasket etc. Don't do that, that's the old very PITA way it had to be done 30+ years ago.

Jon, will the pan drop enough to do it, or does the diff, or engine have to move some? I haven't had any pan unbolted in these, I've only cleaned and tightened in those spaces.

I boUGHT the felpro gasket that's supposed to be an upgrade the OEM. Similar construction in regards to the rubber and metal combo. I really hope the pan will drop far enough to do this.

 

[CDW6212R]

I think you will be okay, you have been thoughtful about the steps you've taken so far. Turdle will chime in soon, he's worked on his trucks and others just like your(302/AWD). He'll reply about the space you will have to change the gasket, he was doing the oil pump the last time he made that thread of his. That's a whole different monster to get to.

 

[fast_dave]

I boUGHT the felpro gasket that's supposed to be an upgrade the OEM. Similar construction in regards to the rubber and metal combo. I really hope the pan will drop far enough to do this.

Mitchs07explorer

Just in case - here's a coupon for the 1 ton HF Shop Crane for $99 (as opposed to the $169 Regular Price)

LINK: Harbor Freight Tools Coupon Database - Free coupons, 25 percent off coupons, toolbox coupons - 1 TON CAPACITY FOLDABLE SHOP CRANE

Hope you don't need it - BUT - if you do, hope this helps!

Good luck - quite a project ahead of you!

Have a good supply of old t-shirts, socks, and spray can parts cleaner for wiping off all of the old accumulated oil!

 

[Mitchs07explorer]

I pulled the timing chain off on my lunch break just now, it was easy to remove. In the process of pulling the cam sprocket off I accidentally knocked loose a piece of the timing cover gasket... what's also unfortunate is the rag I had blocking the opening to the oil pan got slight pulled out down so the piece of gasket went into the pan. I can see it and fish it out with a long pair of tweezers so it's hopefully not going to be a big deal but I also noticed a little grime from the Timing Cover fell into the pan when I was prying it loose. I didn't clean up the area like I should've before removing the cover and hopefully I won't pay for that mistake. I figured if I end up being able to replace my pan gasket I was going to flush the pan out through the opening before I put the TC back on. I was going to use a parts cleaner to rinse the pan out, hopefully that will help break down and remove any grime that I got in there. Any other tips for resolving my dumbass mistake?

 

[fast_dave]

but I also noticed a little grime from the Timing Cover fell into the pan when I was prying it loose. I didn't clean up the area like I should've before removing the cover and hopefully I won't pay for that mistake. I figured if I end up being able to replace my pan gasket I was going to flush the pan out through the opening before I put the TC back on. I was going to use a parts cleaner to rinse the pan out, hopefully that will help break down and remove any grime that I got in there. Any other tips for resolving my dumbass mistake?

Seriously - tough break man.

I get what you're saying - you want to remove the oil pan nut, spray parts cleaner in the pan, and hope that flushes out the grime that fell in.

BUT - If the oil pan is NOT coming off & completely out - I throw out the following thought; not knowing the baffle set up in the oil pan (if any) I would wonder if it were worse to have a mixture of old motor oil & parts cleaner get caught in a baffle and thus stay in the pan VERSES having a lil' grime stay in the pan.

I'm sure more will chime in ;-)

 

[CDW6212R]

The pan bottom is empty, no baffles in these trucks. Avoid spraying anything in it that might remain longer. I'd keep trying to catch as much as possible, and if needed, use things like WD40 or PB Blaster, Marvel Mystery oil(sprayed), etc. Those things are closer to oil than carb cleaner etc. Worse case you fill it the first time with the cheapest oil you can, and change the oil and filter again immediately after a couple of minutes running.

 

[fast_dave]

The pan bottom is empty, no baffles in these trucks.

I knew somebody on the forum would know if there were baffles in the oil pan - thanks for clearing that up, Don!

Additionally - your choices of what to spray into the pan (if it's not coming off) are sound choices - much better than carb OR parts cleaner. Too bad Marvel Mystery Oil doesn't come in spray cans, as that would be my choice!

 

[Mitchs07explorer]

I forgot that it would be filtered first, I bet I could get 99% out by hand anyway. I'll run the cheap oil through it for a few minutes and then change after I get it running, that makes good sense to me. I wanted to do that anywayvto help get any other gunk out of the engine in general. Would like to use sea foam on it but am unsure about using that in a engine with 166k on it.

 

[CDW6212R]

Just get all of the big stuff that falls in, the oil pump pickup screen has holes that are about 1/16", and tiny fabric of gasket material probably wouldn't hurt the pump, but it could cover the screen if there was much of it. You're being careful so go slow and it shouldn't be any trouble.

BTW, WD40 is something you can buy in gallon containers, and parts stores also carry some kinds of spray cans for it, or anything you might want to put into it. The Marvel Mystery oil is a great thing for using inside an engine, spraying prior to starting an old stored engine etc. I don't have that myself handy, but that is easy to get if something else wasn't handy.