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Getting the most out of what I have

Maybe I should make a new thread to ask this.. but I plan on moving to a 17x9 wheel with 0mm offset. I have the stock 16x7, and without measuring (just research), looks like they come with a 12mm offset. Is this right? I hate to ask such a silly question when I could go measure it myself, but being basically an hour from where I can work on it just to measure something.. sucks. I think this would move me from 4.5in of backspacing to 5in with the 17x9 wheel.

Will I run into any issues with the tires hitting the suspension? I'm planning on 265/70R17s, so about 10.4in wide and 31.7in in diameter. I am planning on lifting so the diameter isn't my main concern. I know when you go too wide you can run into issues with tires rubbing parts of the suspension and I don't want to be forced to buy spacers.

Maybe a better way to ask this is, has anyone moved from the stock 16x7 teardrops to a 17x9, and what offset/backspacing did you have to not worry about rubbing on the inside?

Or.. should I just take the L and go to a tire and wheel shop? Is that the smart thing to do here?
 



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@toobladink The 16x7 stock rims on my '99 Sport (teardrop style) had 3.75" backspacing. Don't think about offset, it's just a more complicated way of measuring backspacing.

Offset = distance between center line and mounting surface

Backspacing = distance between inner lip (hub side) and mounting surface

Offset is just a more complicated way of doing the same math.

If O= Offset, R = wheel width, and B = backspacing:

O = B - (R/2)

If the backspacing is more than half of the wheel width, you have negative offset. If the backspacing is less than half of the wheel width, you have positive offset.

You choose the units of measurement, doesn't matter if you use yards, feet, inches, meters, centimeters, millimeters, or jelly beans, the math is the same.

So, if you're on 16x7 backspaced 3.75", your wheels stick out 3.25" outward from the hub, and stick 3.75" inward behind the hub mounting surface. The offset is -0.25".

If you're going to 17x9's backspaced 5", these wheels stick out 4" from the hub, and stick 5" inward behind the hub mounting surface. The offset is -0.5".

My truck is on 15x10's, backspaced 3.75". These stick out 6.25" from the hub, and stick inward 3.75" behind the hub mounting surface. The offset is +1.25".

I have 1.5" spacers on the front only, which changes these numbers to 7.75" outside the hub and 2.25" behind the hub. The offset is +2.75".

Ultimate answer is, the smart thing to do is figure out what you want, and what you're willing to sacrifice in order to get it. But as a general rule, you DO NOT want to have more than 3.75" of backspacing, because that will shove your wheels inward (negative offset) and then you will likely end up needing a spacer.

Understand that running the same width tire on a wider wheel will change the side wall angle, which will affect your clearance. My 33x12.50's on 15x10's have a much closer to vertical side wall than they would if I was running them on 15x8's, which would cause them to bend outward, and potentially rub on suspension parts.
 






@toobladink The 16x7 stock rims on my '99 Sport (teardrop style) had 3.75" backspacing. Don't think about offset, it's just a more complicated way of measuring backspacing.

Offset = distance between center line and mounting surface

Backspacing = distance between inner lip (hub side) and mounting surface

Offset is just a more complicated way of doing the same math.

If O= Offset, R = wheel width, and B = backspacing:

O = B - (R/2)

If the backspacing is more than half of the wheel width, you have negative offset. If the backspacing is less than half of the wheel width, you have positive offset.

You choose the units of measurement, doesn't matter if you use yards, feet, inches, meters, centimeters, millimeters, or jelly beans, the math is the same.

So, if you're on 16x7 backspaced 3.75", your wheels stick out 3.25" outward from the hub, and stick 3.75" inward behind the hub mounting surface. The offset is -0.25".

If you're going to 17x9's backspaced 5", these wheels stick out 4" from the hub, and stick 5" inward behind the hub mounting surface. The offset is -0.5".

My truck is on 15x10's, backspaced 3.75". These stick out 6.25" from the hub, and stick inward 3.75" behind the hub mounting surface. The offset is +1.25".

I have 1.5" spacers on the front only, which changes these numbers to 7.75" outside the hub and 2.25" behind the hub. The offset is +2.75".
Do you have those spacers out of necessity? How wide are your tires? This is really helpful!
 






Edited previous post to include more information.

No, the spacers actually cause clearance issues on the outside, which is why cutting the fenders was necessary. The wheels fit much better without the spacers, but I needed the stance and couldn't justify ordering custom one-off wheels with 2.25" of backspacing, on the off chance that they wouldn't fit. Getting bigger or smaller spacers is a much more economical way of adjusting clearance after wheel/tire combination is purchased, but presents its own inconveniences and disadvantages. But I knew the 3.75" backspaced wheels would fit, because that's what the factory backspacing was.

(Possibly relevant as well - if you, like me, should for whatever reason decide that you want to widen either the front or rear track without affecting the other, and don't want to perform an axle swap, you will find your solution in the form of wheel spacers. I originally ran spacers front and rear, but quickly found that the rear suspension responds poorly to added width due to the difference in leverage, and the unyielding nature of the 8.8 on leaf springs - it introduced poor handling characteristics for street use such as increased wheel hop on cornering, and the tires bashing into the rear fender wells rather than tucking limited practicality off-road. The front fenders had already been modified to accommodate the wider stance, and the IFS did not suffer the same ill effects, so I kept the spacers up front and ditched them from the rear.)

The 33x12.50R15's with 3.75" backspacing didn't scrub any suspension components while running RTZ's 2" re-indexed torsion bar keys before or after installing the Superlift, with or without the 1.5" spacers. The clearance issues were all on the outer lip, the tires scraping and bashing against the fenders.

I also have a '01 Limited with the stock 16x7's running 265/70R16's (about 1" shorter in diameter than your 265/70R17's, naturally) on the RTZ 2" re-indexed torsion bar keys, also on 1.5" spacers (front only). This does scrub on the front bumper at full turn on flex, and at full turn while accelerating in reverse. The outer lip is placed equivalent to 16x7 with 2.25" backspacing.

So my ultimate answer, is, your results will differ from mine because your wheel dimensions, tire size, and suspension configuration differs from mine. But I can say with confidence that, at stock height, 9" rims with 3.75" backspacing will be way too wide and will scrub on the fenders when turning.
 






So my ultimate answer, is, your results will differ from mine because your wheel dimensions, tire size, and suspension configuration differs from mine. But I can say with confidence that, at stock height, 9" rims with 3.75" backspacing will be way too wide and will scrub on the fenders when turning.
I see. Well, I am planning on adding some warrior shackles, which will give it about 1.5-2in of lift. I will also probably do a torsion twist. I can't help but ask since you mentioned it, but why are you using keys? Did you feel like it helped with your ride or was it just easy to get a consistent lift? Do you have a link to those RTZ 2inch keys? I know so little about how torsion bars work in general.

Is 4-4.5inches of backspacing going to be my "sweetspot" for no rubbing with 9 inch wheels and 265/70R17? If it rubs anywhere, I'd prefer the front bumper since that's easy to trim and in terms of the exterior, it's the worst part of my car already. Does your limited rub anywhere if you remove the spacers? Like the suspension?

** Update: Didn't think to use it, but redownloaded facebook and joined a ton of groups. Found some guys using 17x8.5 inch wheels with 0 offset - which is 4.75inches of backspacing. They just had to twist the torsion bar and have no rubbing. Should I trust the internet? I would expect there to be some rubbing on stuff on the outside. Hoping at most it's just a little bumper trimming :D
 






RTZ lift kit comes with re-indexed torsion bar keys allowing for up to 3" of added height, and shackles with holes for 1.5" and 2" of added height. Link:


I chose these because the alternatives were cranking the bars with the factory keys, or getting longer bolts and still cranking the bars with factory keys. The function of re-indexed keys is effectively the same as a drop bracket. It keeps the torsion bar bolt in the same place, but moves the suspension downward, allowing you the full motion of suspension travel while keeping the wheels farther away from the body. The angles don't change and the ride doesn't change, because the only thing that changed is the location of the adjuster bolt in relation to the key. Re-indexed keys solve the actual problem, whereas cranking the factory keys makes your suspension ineffective in its purpose.

I did not get an alignment after installing the RTZ torsion bar keys on the Sport because I knew I was going to get an alignment after installing new tires. Similarly, I timed the lift installation and alignment with the new tires on the Limited as well, to prevent needing to do any part of that process twice. Same for spacers - install before alignment.

In this order, install spacers if desired and then T-bar keys, then adjust bolts, then drive around to settle every thing, check and adjust, drive around again, check again. Drive over curbs, speed bumps, cinder blocks, tree stumps, or whatever's handy that forces the suspension to move, within the bounds of the law of course. Once the suspension is how you want it AFTER every thing settles into its final place, and your new tires are installed, then get your alignment done.

And that clown on Facebook is wrong, ignore any dunce on the Interwebs who tells you that a 8.5" wide wheel with 0 offset has a backspacing of 4.75". He either can't do basic math, or doesn't know what "offset" means. 0 offset would make the backspacing exactly 1/2 of the rim width, which would be 4.25" on a 8.5" wide wheel, not 4.75". If a 8.5" wide wheel has 4.75" of backspacing, then it has -0.5" offset. That's elementary.

I'm telling you now, don't get a wheel with more backspacing than the factory 3.75". Ford designed the truck to use wheels with exactly that backspacing, plus I can assume that your tires will be wider than the factory tires, and/or at least have a more aggressively-textured side wall. Unless you really want to have to buy spacers, just get wheels with the factory backspacing, or less (while being aware that less backspacing will put the wheels outward farther, necessitating more trimming on the fenders/bumper). The sweet spot for no rubbing is keeping the factory specs. Figure out what's important to you before you buy the wheels and tires, because you will invariably be making sacrifices.

An 8.5" wide wheel with 3.75" of backspacing would have the outer lip in the same place as my Limited. Given the SAME tire in the SAME size on my truck, the side wall will stick out farther on MY truck because the center line of the wheel is out farther (effectively, my spacers reduce the backspacing to 2.25" on a 7" wide wheel). If I were to switch to 8.5" wheels with 3.75" backspacing on MY Limited, with MY tires, it would no longer scrub.

Your experience will vary, because all Explorers are not created equal. Some have softer torsion bars, some have stiffer, and some have other things going on with the suspension geometry (such as adjustable control arms, non-standard alignment kits, etc.) Also, how far your truck leans to the left will also affect the scrubbing. All 2nd-gen Explorers lean left. If yours doesn't, it will.

P. S. If you want a quick understanding on how torsion bars work, find a click-pen and remove the spring. Hold one end of the spring, and twist the other end. The spring will revert to its original form when you stop twisting it. That's exactly what torsion bars do. Crawl under your truck and look at it, before and/or after the pen-spring thing. The truck frame is connected to one end of the spring, and the wheel is connected to the other end. It's actually really simple, once you get a look at it.
 






Maybe I should make a new thread to ask this.. but I plan on moving to a 17x9 wheel with 0mm offset. I have the stock 16x7, and without measuring (just research), looks like they come with a 12mm offset. Is this right? I hate to ask such a silly question when I could go measure it myself, but being basically an hour from where I can work on it just to measure something.. sucks. I think this would move me from 4.5in of backspacing to 5in with the 17x9 wheel.

Will I run into any issues with the tires hitting the suspension? I'm planning on 265/70R17s, so about 10.4in wide and 31.7in in diameter. I am planning on lifting so the diameter isn't my main concern. I know when you go too wide you can run into issues with tires rubbing parts of the suspension and I don't want to be forced to buy spacers.

Maybe a better way to ask this is, has anyone moved from the stock 16x7 teardrops to a 17x9, and what offset/backspacing did you have to not worry about rubbing on the inside?

Or.. should I just take the L and go to a tire and wheel shop? Is that the smart thing to do here?
Late to the convo, but I have a little to add.

I run 17x9ET24 rims (and an 11mm spacer, so effective net offset is 13mm) with 275/55R17 tires and I'm lowered ~2" and I don't rub the UCA/UBJ or body with this setup. Your tires will be taller than mine, but at stock height your clearance would be similar to mine due to my being lowered. The one place I rubbed was on the sway bar so I extended my steering knuckle stops on the LCAs -- this may not be an issue for you since you'll have less offset and a narrower tire.

On a 17x9 with 0 offset, your rim will stick out 13mm further than mine, but your tire will be roughly 5mm narrower than mine on each side. I'd frankly be shocked if you rubbed the fender/bumper with a setup that sticks out only 8mm further than mine overall. But then again, I'm not often flexing my IFS hard like one might be doing when off-roading. With a TT, I'd really expect you to be fine. But @DintDobbs is right about all explorers being different. At some point, you just have to go with the setup you think is best for you and figure out how to make it work, likely with some combination of spacers, trimming, etc.

1713980566313.png


1713980605621.png
 






And that clown on Facebook is wrong, ignore any dunce on the Interwebs who tells you that a 8.5" wide wheel with 0 offset has a backspacing of 4.75". He either can't do basic math, or doesn't know what "offset" means. 0 offset would make the backspacing exactly 1/2 of the rim width, which would be 4.25" on a 8.5" wide wheel, not 4.75". If a 8.5" wide wheel has 4.75" of backspacing, then it has -0.5" offset. That's elementary.
Phew yeah, should have looked at that closer! I was just reading some old posts and just found that lol. Thanks for the help! I already have shackles, so I may look for a different kit for keys. I was worried about the ride changing negatively, but glad I asked because I was under the impression that they sold keys just for the purpose of consistency - like packs you linked, where you want to have shackles and keys provide an "even" lift for both sides of the car for dudes like me who lack confidence with stuff like this. I know the warrior shackles don't give much, so I might look for keys that give a similar "amount" and then adjust the bars as needed to fine-tune.

@97Sandbox love how yours looks though. I think chrome might look better with my colors, not sure about black but those do look nice! Makes me want to get a second explorer so I have one that's meant for streets and one for camping.
 






@97Sandbox love how yours looks though. I think chrome might look better with my colors, not sure about black but those do look nice! Makes me want to get a second explorer so I have one that's meant for streets and one for camping.
Thanks! I know what you mean, I built my Sport as a street truck back when I lived in the city but now that I live in the country, I want another for tow rig/farm use. That's what my "engine donor" Mountaineer is slowly turning into 🤷‍♂️
 






@toobladink Would absolutely recommend grabbing a second Explorer for street use. That's exactly what I did, but the environment is mean here, so a moderate lift and all-terrains for the street truck just kind of made sense.

I'm pretty sure you can get the RTZ keys separately from the shackles, I just bought the whole kit because I needed the shackles too. No comments on the quality, both the keys and the shackles have been well abused and held up to every thing I'd expect the factory shackles to take, with no issues to report.

And you don't have to have the keys adjusted all the way up to 3" of lift. Due to the nature of torsion bar adjustment, you can put them anywhere from 1" to 3" above factory ride height, but in any case you will want an alignment after you get it where you want it.

@97Sandbox I was actually specifically thinking of your Explorer, but couldn't think of your username at the time. Glad you caught this thread!
 






Man thank you guys for all the help. This weekend was the most amount of work, even though it was just a few things! I replace the bushings inside the frame that hold the shackles, replaced the shackles for a lil lift, and finally replaces the front sway bar links. I have decided on a new tire choice, more on that at the end. Anyways... I got some "before and afters" I want to share.

The best one is these shackles..
IMG_5157.jpg


Yeah the old ones look really bad. Next is the sway bar links. I did not torque em down to what the manual said before the pic, so they are more squeezed down now than what that pic shows. Forgot to do that afterwards, maybe i got excited because my favorite color is green. Idk.
IMG_5155.jpg


Okay so... let's see the car before and after the shackles!
IMG_5151.jpg


IMG_5162.jpg


It looks ready for the new tires I want. The biggest thing is, I broke the exhaust hanger on the back a while ago because I didn't have a lot of clearance. So I measured the end of the hitch and got a before/after of that. I gained almost two inches!
IMG_4809.jpg

IMG_5160.jpg


lastly, here's a pic of the new shackles. Gotta finish rust treatment on other areas. Thankfully the car isn't too bad, so once I brush everything off and treat it, I should be okay!
IMG_5161.jpg


Anyways, I was talking a lot last week about 17 inch rims because I want (and need) new tires! I wanted to wait for the BFG KO3, but seems like the Falken A/T4W is a close competitor and they already offer it in 16 inch rims in the same size as the 17 inch. Big deal for me because I'd like to get new tires for camping this summer, basically next month - the KO3 wasn't going to be available in that size til August. lame! I also save money by not buying new wheels, and I like the OEM teardrops. So, should I get the passenger rating 265/75R16 or the light truck 265/75R16? I feel like if I air down a lot, i'm going to want the LT ones. But... am I doing enough off-roading to justify that? I don't think I am. There are big differences between the two, but I worry about the ride and gas mileage a lot since it's 8 lbs heavier per tire and the load rating is significantly higher. The rating for the passenger tire is 116T, and LT is 123S. The passenger tires I have on now have done well for almost 8 years, and I don't see myself pushing super hard, so I'm leaning towards those. What should I pick? The prices are pretty similar, it's just ride quality and mpg that I care about, but if the LT isn't much worse, I'd rather get that for the extra durability.

Also that last pic - there's a lot of rust forming on my rear bumper and I want to take care of it. What can I do to touch it up?
 






I would go for the light truck tire they should be 6 or 8 ply on a suv imo. Your truck weighs almost 5000# this is much heavier than a passenger car.

For the rust I am a
Huge fan or permatex rust treatment it stops rust cold and turns it into hard
Black paint
 






Man thank you guys for all the help. This weekend was the most amount of work, even though it was just a few things! I replace the bushings inside the frame that hold the shackles, replaced the shackles for a lil lift, and finally replaces the front sway bar links. I have decided on a new tire choice, more on that at the end. Anyways... I got some "before and afters" I want to share.

The best one is these shackles..View attachment 451984

Yeah the old ones look really bad. Next is the sway bar links. I did not torque em down to what the manual said before the pic, so they are more squeezed down now than what that pic shows. Forgot to do that afterwards, maybe i got excited because my favorite color is green. Idk.
View attachment 451985

Okay so... let's see the car before and after the shackles!
View attachment 451986

View attachment 451987

It looks ready for the new tires I want. The biggest thing is, I broke the exhaust hanger on the back a while ago because I didn't have a lot of clearance. So I measured the end of the hitch and got a before/after of that. I gained almost two inches!
View attachment 451990
View attachment 451989

lastly, here's a pic of the new shackles. Gotta finish rust treatment on other areas. Thankfully the car isn't too bad, so once I brush everything off and treat it, I should be okay!View attachment 451988

Anyways, I was talking a lot last week about 17 inch rims because I want (and need) new tires! I wanted to wait for the BFG KO3, but seems like the Falken A/T4W is a close competitor and they already offer it in 16 inch rims in the same size as the 17 inch. Big deal for me because I'd like to get new tires for camping this summer, basically next month - the KO3 wasn't going to be available in that size til August. lame! I also save money by not buying new wheels, and I like the OEM teardrops. So, should I get the passenger rating 265/75R16 or the light truck 265/75R16? I feel like if I air down a lot, i'm going to want the LT ones. But... am I doing enough off-roading to justify that? I don't think I am. There are big differences between the two, but I worry about the ride and gas mileage a lot since it's 8 lbs heavier per tire and the load rating is significantly higher. The rating for the passenger tire is 116T, and LT is 123S. The passenger tires I have on now have done well for almost 8 years, and I don't see myself pushing super hard, so I'm leaning towards those. What should I pick? The prices are pretty similar, it's just ride quality and mpg that I care about, but if the LT isn't much worse, I'd rather get that for the extra durability.

Also that last pic - there's a lot of rust forming on my rear bumper and I want to take care of it. What can I do to touch it up?
rusteum rust refirmer is fast snd wirks well here at least
 






The best one is these shackles..View attachment 451984

Yeah the old ones look really bad.
I saw this pic and was like "where's the bad one?" You folks out west have it too good hahaha.

When I replaced shackles on my '97 there was no sign of black paint anywhere and the steel was down to about half its original thickness. And my '97 spent its first 10 years in California before coming to the midwest! Heck, I bet a quarter of the second gens around here have at least one crumpled shackle and the rear spring eye sitting against the frame. Either that or they're one pothole away from it.

If you're taking the truck off road, I wouldn't worry about that surface rust on the bumper unless it visually bothers you. Sadly, the rust to be worried about is always the rust you can't see: inside the frame, inside rear quarters, inside the rocker panels, and inside the front fenders at the bottom where the inner structure welds on. If you don't have rust there now, it'd be a good idea to spray fluid film or something in those areas for protection.

The rust-slowing formula I like for exterior and suspension parts (and have found holds up to time and harsh conditions) is rust reformer then chassis paint then bedliner. The key is getting the surface clean before the rust reformer goes on. The bedliner really helps make debris bounce off so you don't get new rock chips and start rusting again -- I even have the non-visible sections of the rockers on my daily driver sprayed with bedliner. If you don't like the bedliner look, you can always skip and topcoat the chassis paint with your color of choice instead.
 






If you're taking the truck off road, I wouldn't worry about that surface rust on the bumper unless it visually bothers you. Sadly, the rust to be worried about is always the rust you can't see: inside the frame, inside rear quarters, inside the rocker panels, and inside the front fenders at the bottom where the inner structure welds on. If you don't have rust there now, it'd be a good idea to spray fluid film or something in those areas for protection.

The rust-slowing formula I like for exterior and suspension parts (and have found holds up to time and harsh conditions) is rust reformer then chassis paint then bedliner. The key is getting the surface clean before the rust reformer goes on. The bedliner really helps make debris bounce off so you don't get new rock chips and start rusting again -- I even have the non-visible sections of the rockers on my daily driver sprayed with bedliner. If you don't like the bedliner look, you can always skip and topcoat the chassis paint with your color of choice instead.
Yeah the rust on the bumper just bothers me, especially because it’s gotten significantly worse since the winter. I’ve been using rustoleum rust reformer on the frame and anything steel wherever I can as I slowly work on things and expose them. Probably going to do the majority at some point in a few weeks and then I’ll probably spray with something else for protection. Just been doing the rustoleum reformer because if I waited for that to cure and then paint, and then waited for that to cure..I would be waiting for paint to dry and not really able to work on much of anything lol.
 












Have you tried rustoleum before/can you compare? I think the rustoleum one is similar, it smells different than other spray paints and I've had to wear a respirator when applying, so I feel like some sort of similar bonding is happening lol.

Also on those Falken tires, the LT ones are ten-ply. That seems overkill to me? I currently have a passenger tire that is 109S and it has done decent for what I do, but the passenger rated ones are 4-ply. I wish they had a middle ground that was 6 or 8 lol. It looks like the load index will go up by 500 lbs per tire, or 1200 lbs if I get the LT ones. But yeah, they're listed as SL load range which I think is typically 4-ply. I'll probably just get the LT ones. It seems like you could go back and forth on this depending on use cases. Like, most of my miles will definitely be on the highway. But when I decide to go off-roading mid-roadtrip, it's nice to have that extra durability and not need it, than to have a blown tire with no cell service :)

@Fix4Dirt I think our tire sizes are going to be similar, do you know if your toyo tires are LT tires?
 






I have tried rust inhibitors before yes, I am not sure if I have used the rust oleum. Their products are not my first choice. Krylon spray paint is superior to rust oleum imo
The spray on treatments do not work as well as this stuff! Now with that said I am not opposed to trying new things! Word of mouth (forums) is the best advertising! the permatex brushes on a dries quickly only prep needed is to knock loose any bad material. 2-3 coats and it’s hard as a rock and solid black
I use only a few trusted products here and when I find something I like I stick with it and be sure to share my findings

This stuff looks like chocolate
Milk it brushes on white and thick. You open the bottle and pour some into a dish, tin, cup and quickly Close the lid to preserve the rest of the bottle. It reacts to oxygen.
Brush it on generously and it will be dry in a couple of hours w good temps and airflow
Then repeat
It dries black and solid you can see it work plus it lasts
 






I have tried rust inhibitors before yes, I am not sure if I have used the rust oleum. Their products are not my first choice. Krylon spray paint is superior to rust oleum imo
The spray on treatments do not work as well as this stuff! Now with that said I am not opposed to trying new things! Word of mouth (forums) is the best advertising! the permatex brushes on a dries quickly only prep needed is to knock loose any bad material. 2-3 coats and it’s hard as a rock and solid black
I use only a few trusted products here and when I find something I like I stick with it and be sure to share my findings
I will probably try it anyways. I've only found the rust reformer in the spray can and it's nice, but man the can gets messy. A brush would probably be faster, too.
 



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My front bumper here was solid rust for a couple of years. Last season after washing my bronco I was tired of looking at ol rusty duff
Bumper. So I coated it w the permatex 2 coats. That’s it no prep no sanding nada
Here it is today still solid black no new rust


I live in the mudd and dirt and drive her in the winter salt

IMG_1381.jpeg


So if I sand the sucker and then treat it followed w some paint it will be like new again

The permatex works
 






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